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John Deer Sabre 18V/46 Hydro - Hydrostatic Transmission Problem


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#1 thinksnowjob OFFLINE  

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Posted July 06, 2010 - 08:51 PM

John Deer Sabre 18V/46 Hydro - Hydrostatic Transmission Problem


Before i tear into this thing, can anyone tell me the make and model of the transmission? Many acres on this thing. Daughter was mowing, she stopped for gas, then when started back up, the hydrostatic groans and growls and moves barely at all. Can drive tractor very slow without the noise, but that is about it. Forward and reverse the same, just a loud growl.

#2 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted July 06, 2010 - 08:54 PM

No idea, but the unit should have a tag on it. Once you get it out, you should find it. Might be a "Tuff Torque".

#3 olcowhand ONLINE  

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Posted July 06, 2010 - 09:02 PM

Did some searching. Could you mean a model 1846HV? If so, or even otherwise, I may have your answer. I copied & pasted the possible answer below. With some luck, it may be much simpler than you figured.

Input shaft pulley splines are stripped.Input shaft is forged steel and the pulley is cast so 99% of the time only the pulley will need to be replaced.6 bolts,hydro lever,tow rod and brake rod needs to be removed.Our shop does about 1 Sabre every 2-3 months with this same condition.Takes less than 2 hours time to repair.

The above sounds very much like the problem. Under slight load, the worn teeth in pulley can hold, but under more load they will slip & grind. Had same type of thing happen on a couple Cub Cadets.

Edited by olcowhand, July 06, 2010 - 09:13 PM.


#4 TransMan OFFLINE  

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Posted July 18, 2010 - 05:45 PM

The transmission is usually a TuffTorq K51A, but this same info works for the B or C models. The pulley comes from your John Deere dealer. It is part number M127358 and costs $13.75 plus tax as of 6/24/2010. Mine also needed the input shaft (pump shaft) replaced. You need to order the shaft assembly from TuffTorq. I ordered mine, part number 19216899490, from their web site for $25.51 plus shipping, which ranges from $14.00 for UPS ground and up (I had mine delivered in 3 days for $21.25 shipping). It comes with the pressed on bearing assembly in place and with a new oil seal, plus a spring that was not present with the old assembly. To replace it, pry out the old oil seal by inserting a small flat screwdriver between the shaft and the seal, then remove the large spring clip that sits on the top of the bearing in a groove in the transmission case. The old shaft pulls out easily - I thought it would offer some resistance and ended up splashing oil on my workbench, so go easy with it. Place the spring on the bottom of the shaft and hold it in place with your finger as long as you can while inserting the new shaft. Then replace the spring clip (you will need to push down on the shaft to compress that new spring so the spring clip will seat properly) and cover the splines with tape so they won't injure the new seal. Add some oil if needed. TuffTorq used 10W-30 motor oil at the factory, but recommends Synthetic 5W-50 if you are replacing it. The whole process took about 15 minutes, including replacing the pulley. Of course that doesn't include removing and replacing the transmission from the tractor. This repair cost me $60.91 including tax - much better than the $600.00 my John Deere dealer wanted to replace the entire transmission - they said they didn't work on the transmissions, they just replaced them.
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#5 thinksnowjob OFFLINE  

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Posted July 27, 2010 - 09:03 PM

Thanks a bunch for the response. Very helpful information. Bought a new pulley and fan and ready to reassemble. Transman above mentioned the oil for the transaxle and I would like to drain and refill with fresh while I have it out. How is this done and how much oil does it take? I want to drain and refill with the Synthetic 5W-50. Thanks again!

#6 Aussiedog OFFLINE  

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Posted May 06, 2011 - 12:06 AM

May 5th, 2011

TransMan, I want to give you a big Thank You!

I joined as a new member a couple of days ago because of some sound advice you gave last summer on this forum where someone asked how to repair their Tuff Torq K51A. Two weeks ago just as I was finishing up mowing a couple of acres of lawn I heard a terrible screech coming from under my Scott 1642s lawn tractor seat. I immediatly lost all forward and reverse motion. This problem happened just as I started to go up a slight rise. I shut off the tractor and jumped off to take a quick look underneath but I really didn't know what I was looking for. The drive belt looked fine and I didn't smell anything burning. All the various drive pulleys and idlers also spun freely. The only thing that looked odd was that the transmission pulley and fan were awfully wobbly.

To make a long story short, I was able to creep the tractor back into its shed that day and then I headed off to the internet to find out if someone else was having this problem. It turned out that many folks have this problem but they don't know how to fix it. The advice they are getting goes completely across the board to the absurd and expensive. When I discovered GTTalk I searched the forums for Tuff Torq and found someone with a similar problem. Lucky for me you you responded to the problem and identified the transmission make and model for the member as a K51A. You then went on to explain in simple, straight forward detail the exact problem and how to fix it, including giving the part numbers. I copied your response and yesterday I got to work on my Scott tractor. I removed the mower deck, disconnected the drive belt and jacked it up off the floor so that I could access and remove the Tuff Torq transmission. Upon inspection I could see where the transmission pulley was badly stripped inside. No wonder it would slip in both directions. Thankfully the pump shaft grooves still looked good. I called Derrick Dalton at Tuff Torq and he told me to change out the transmission's old original 10-30w oil with synthetic Castrol 5-50 as long as I had the transmission already out. I bought a new pulley from my John Deere dealer for under $20 and 3 quarts of new synthetic oil for $15.
Today I put everything back together and crossed my fingers it would work. Much to my surprise it worked great! I then cleaned the mower deck and sharpened and balanced the two blades. My tractor speed and power is significantly better now and the mower cuts grass the best ever. I did the two acres of lawn this afternoon in record time.

Thanks again for taking the time to help others work through this aggravating and potentially expensive problem. I'm sure most folks just assume their lawn tractor is toast and even out to go buy a new one. My total cost for the new pulley and oil was just $35 plus my time.:dancingbanana::dancingbanana::dancingbanana:

Best Regards,:beerchug:
Aussiedog (I own Australian Shepherds))
Washington State


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#7 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted May 06, 2011 - 07:18 AM

May 5th, 2011

TransMan, I want to give you a big Thank You!

I joined as a new member a couple of days ago because of some sound advice you gave last summer on this forum where someone asked how to repair their Tuff Torq K51A. Two weeks ago just as I was finishing up mowing a couple of acres of lawn I heard a terrible screech coming from under my Scott 1642s lawn tractor seat. I immediatly lost all forward and reverse motion. This problem happened just as I started to go up a slight rise. I shut off the tractor and jumped off to take a quick look underneath but I really didn't know what I was looking for. The drive belt looked fine and I didn't smell anything burning. All the various drive pulleys and idlers also spun freely. The only thing that looked odd was that the transmission pulley and fan were awfully wobbly.

To make a long story short, I was able to creep the tractor back into its shed that day and then I headed off to the internet to find out if someone else was having this problem. It turned out that many folks have this problem but they don't know how to fix it. The advice they are getting goes completely across the board to the absurd and expensive. When I discovered GTTalk I searched the forums for Tuff Torq and found someone with a similar problem. Lucky for me you you responded to the problem and identified the transmission make and model for the member as a K51A. You then went on to explain in simple, straight forward detail the exact problem and how to fix it, including giving the part numbers. I copied your response and yesterday I got to work on my Scott tractor. I removed the mower deck, disconnected the drive belt and jacked it up off the floor so that I could access and remove the Tuff Torq transmission. Upon inspection I could see where the transmission pulley was badly stripped inside. No wonder it would slip in both directions. Thankfully the pump shaft grooves still looked good. I called Derrick Dalton at Tuff Torq and he told me to change out the transmission's old original 10-30w oil with synthetic Castrol 5-50 as long as I had the transmission already out. I bought a new pulley from my John Deere dealer for under $20 and 3 quarts of new synthetic oil for $15.
Today I put everything back together and crossed my fingers it would work. Much to my surprise it worked great! I then cleaned the mower deck and sharpened and balanced the two blades. My tractor speed and power is significantly better now and the mower cuts grass the best ever. I did the two acres of lawn this afternoon in record time.

Thanks again for taking the time to help others work through this aggravating and potentially expensive problem. I'm sure most folks just assume their lawn tractor is toast and even out to go buy a new one. My total cost for the new pulley and oil was just $35 plus my time.:dancingbanana::dancingbanana::dancingbanana:

Best Regards,:beerchug:
Aussiedog (I own Australian Shepherds))
Washington State


Very cool. It is always nice when you can find the information you are looking for or the help that you need. There may be some things that everyone doesn't know or can't help with but bringing everyone together in one place for us all to share our experiences is what this place is all about.

#8 GibsonsFinest OFFLINE  

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Posted April 10, 2013 - 09:53 PM

Hey guys,

 

I have a similiar problem with my newly acquired 1646HS Sabre mower. It works fairly well for about an hour, then the transmission starts slipping to the point where it will barely move up a slight incline. There's never a screeching noise or anything else...it just slowly looses the power to go up any slight increases in elevation. I'd really like to be able to repair this...I paid $100 for the mower, it's in really great shape all around except for this issue. Is the issue the input shaft like the one mentioned above? If not, what is wrong with it and how can it be repaired, if at all?






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