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Do You Folks Mind A Roto Tiller Question...?


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#1 jd265 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 07, 2012 - 10:33 AM

I have a 5 HP / 17" rear tine Sears Craftsman tiller that runs and drives ahead, sort of.. The horrible noise coming from the gearbox sounds like the chain is skipping over a worn sprocket.

Well, I got the machine stripped down to open the gearbox which is an integral to the spine frame of the machine and there are no obvious signs of a broken gear or stripped sprocket yet. The entire inside of the gearbox/chain case is full of the heaviest, sticky, smelly cosmolene (sp...?) grease I have ever encountered.
As soon as I can clean that off the gears and shafts I will be able examine them for damage.

Two questions:
How does one best clean the compline off the gears and shafts...? Which solvent works best for this...?
How in the world does one assemble the gear and shaft assemblies and then fill the case with lubricant...?

pdf of the chain case diagram attached to illustrate if needed...

Thanks,
Rob

Attached Thumbnails

  • Tiller Case.jpg

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#2 GTTinkerer OFFLINE  

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Posted June 07, 2012 - 11:09 AM

I have a 5 HP / 17" rear tine Sears Craftsman tiller that runs and drives ahead, sort of.. The horrible noise coming from the gearbox sounds like the chain is skipping over a worn sprocket.

Well, I got the machine stripped down to open the gearbox which is an integral to the spine frame of the machine and there are no obvious signs of a broken gear or stripped sprocket yet. The entire inside of the gearbox/chain case is full of the heaviest, sticky, smelly cosmolene (sp...?) grease I have ever encountered.
As soon as I can clean that off the gears and shafts I will be able examine them for damage.

Two questions:
How does one best clean the compline off the gears and shafts...? Which solvent works best for this...?
How in the world does one assemble the gear and shaft assemblies and then fill the case with lubricant...?

pdf of the chain case diagram attached to illustrate if needed...

Thanks,
Rob


Rob,
Perhaps the chain is worn to the point where it has stretched and is jumping over the sprocket teeth or maybe the bushings for the various shafts have worn to the point they are allowing the shafts to move around too much.

The lubricant is probably "00 Grease" which is usually used in applications where a thinner lubricant would leak past the seals and bushings. Best way to clean it is to pour out as much as possible, then sop up as much as possible with rags during disassembly and use mineral spirits to wash off the rest.

As far as refilling if there is no fill plug; assemble one side as much as possible, then lay it on the assembled side, add 00 grease and finish reassembling with it still laying on that side.

Good luck and as far as asking equipment related questions , ask away.

Bill

#3 JD DANNELS OFFLINE  

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Posted June 07, 2012 - 11:24 AM

Well I've never been into one like that. The one I had apart was front tine unit.
You should be able to wash it out with any good solvent.
Gasoline,Kerosene,Diesel fuel etc(becareul with the flamables) I like odorless mineral spirits,
Gear lubes stink but that's what the chains should run in.
There should be a plug in the case to fill, sometimes it's just a rubber plug.
There should not be a gummy mess or cosmoline as you mentioned. Though I have seen the gummy mess if soil got into the gearbox(plug missing)
I have seen Reneck Engineering used When gearbox seals leaked, by pumpinghem full of grease with a greasegun. In fact I remember a worn out rotary mower, that dad had me fill with grease.
So be sure to check the seals while you have this down.

#4 caseguy OFFLINE  

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Posted June 07, 2012 - 11:38 AM

...Gear lubes stink but that's what the chains should run in...


All of the information that I could find on this unit says that it should be filled with axle grease. It's a shame that you couldn't locate the service manual for it as that would tell you what type the manufacturer suggests.

#5 jd265 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 07, 2012 - 02:40 PM

You guys are great...thanks for the insight on the mineral spirits. The idea of cleaning with gas or even K-1 was buggin' me.

The lube that was in there was a thick paste that smells more like rancid hypoid GL-5 which I actually like the smell of ( well, not rancid but GL-5)... Anyway, it would not "drain" in the state that I found it, I will have to scope it out with a putty knife and then use the mineral spirits and a rag to wipe it down.

There may very well have been dirt intrusion due to a break in the gasket, hard to tell but it was an odd consistency in there.

I agree Bill that the feel of the skipping felt and sounded just like a worn chain and/or sprockets, there is no chain tension devise to keep tension on the chain, could very well be it. So as soon as I can clean all the parts up and look for worn components I'll be able to tell hopefully just where the issue is...

Yes, new seals, hardware and anything else that I find in need.

I find no drain or fill plug holes but again, after a good cleaning hopefully I can figure that out. What is "00 Grease"...? Probably do just that and fill one side of the case at assembly.

One thing about this unit is that one gets plenty of wrench time stripping the entire rig, pulling the engine, controls, tines and shafts, good time...:))

More later.

Thanks very much for the ideas and help.

Best,
Rob

#6 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted June 07, 2012 - 02:48 PM

If it doesn't look like the chain, there are some splines in that part list and some smaller gear-gear contacts. Any of those could be a culprit. Was it "Clicking at gearbox input speed or more like final drive speed? This may be a clue to which end to start lookin in.

I found a tiller empty one time that I borrowed. Seems the gasket had gone bad in a couple places. While I had it apart & fixed the gasket, I drilled/tapped the case and put in a grease fitting. Figured it couldn't hurt as long as no one overgreased it, and I wasn't to worried about that.

#7 drbish ONLINE  

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Posted June 07, 2012 - 04:52 PM

Looking at the ipl it seams that 52 is a location to fill with grease,not much help with any thing else ,good luck

Edited by new restorer, June 07, 2012 - 04:53 PM.


#8 jd265 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 07, 2012 - 09:18 PM

Looking at the ipl it seams that 52 is a location to fill with grease,not much help with any thing else ,good luck


You bugger... I had a motorcycle to work on this afternoon so I did not do a thing on the tiller but I did buy the spirits and stuff to clean the case with... finally came in to watch the Red Sox beat Baltimore and then I saw this...

I had to go out to the Bahn (Maine term, means garage.. :) ) to have a look at that # 52.

That is an O-Ring for the shift selector shaft. There is not a fill plug so I'm thinking that when it goes back together I will do as Bill mentions and lay the one half on its side, assemble as much as possible and fill that cavitiy with grease.
This should be a riot... Hahaa

Thanks,
Rob

#9 JD DANNELS OFFLINE  

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Posted June 07, 2012 - 09:57 PM

I think if it was mine I would do as MH81 said an drill a hole and install a grease zerk
as I remember it was hard enough to assemble and keep everything in place,w/o taking the chance of tipping it over and having grease all over.

#10 GTTinkerer OFFLINE  

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Posted June 07, 2012 - 10:11 PM

This is the 00 Grease I used in my Yard_Man 600 transmission: http://www.rcpw.com/...ase/770123.html

When it is cold it has about the consistency of cold Karo syrup.

Bill

#11 jd265 OFFLINE  

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Posted June 08, 2012 - 06:35 AM

JD,
Yes, I meant to make mention of that zerk fitting idea... The case appears to be double walled so I will investigate just where to put it with the case cleaned up. Possibly just a hole to use the "00" grease... dunno yet.

I bet that is like trying to assemble a soup sandwich, hand full of gears and chain and stuff...!

= ===================== =


Bill,
Got it, thanks,
Rob

#12 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted June 08, 2012 - 06:42 AM

So, it sounds like the best assembly method is: put it together as far as you can, fill 1/2 the case with 00 grease, put it in the deep freeze overnight, and work quickly after you take it out...

JD265 re soup sandwich: :bigrofl: very descriptive :thumbs:

#13 Alc OFFLINE  

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Posted June 08, 2012 - 07:54 AM

Could the noise you heard be a chain that was dry ? It might bend around the sprockets and stay bent until enough fourse to strighten it out , Just a guess , Al

#14 JD DANNELS OFFLINE  

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Posted June 08, 2012 - 07:59 AM

Yeah I like the soup sandwich expression!! While I try to forget those things, I seem to remember the one I had apart to replace the chain slipped in the vice a couple times and I had to collect the parts from the floor and bench and start over. As I recall it was an MTD and it had a rubber plug in the case and used 90 wt gear lube. Last I knew it was still going, so I must have found everything.
While you have that down, check the reduction pulley cluster for bearing and Shaft wear.
I had an 8 hp Gilson and it was a good machine with the exception of that Cluster(Pun intended).
I rebuilt that 4 times and even had to replace the shafts twice. Finally junked it, for that reason only.
Still have the 8 hp motor sitting in the shed.
What I would like to find and rebuild is a Troy-Bilt Horse.

Edited by JD DANNELS, June 08, 2012 - 08:04 AM.


#15 DougT ONLINE  

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Posted June 08, 2012 - 08:55 AM

That lube coould have ben the 600 wt that they used to use in gearboxes. Model A Fords used it in the trans and differentials. I think its even nastier than the 00. It is usually black and has that nasty smell that soesn't even seem like you can wash off.




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