Jump to content

Nominations for Tractor of the Month
Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay



Photo
- - - - -

Update -Oil Leak On K321- Bad News?


  • Please log in to reply
59 replies to this topic

#1 JDBrian OFFLINE  

JDBrian

    Super Moderator

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2507
  • 9,574 Thanks
  • 14,136 posts
  • Location: Hubley, Nova Scotia - Canada

Posted May 19, 2012 - 09:31 AM

I noticed some oil on the front of the engine on the PTO shield and on closer inspection on the shroud and the engine side cover. Pictures below. It looks like it's coming from the exhaust where the muffler clamps on to the pipe from the engine. The bottom bolt on the muffler clamp is wet with oil and since it seems to be spraying out I figure it must be coming from the exhaust! I tightened the clamp and the bottom one was not super tight but not loose either. My question is what would cause oil to be blown out the exhaust? The engine oil looks fairly black and has probably 10 hrs on it. I did some work on the engine last year and removed a lot of carbon and replaced the HG. The oil almost looks like it's got a lot of carbon suspended in it. The engine doesn't smoke noticeably except at startup or on choke. I think I will do an oil change now anyway. Any ideas on what is going on?


DSCF7648.jpg DSCF7647.jpg
Front of engine........ Close up

DSCF7649.jpg DSCF7651.jpg


DSCF7654.jpg DSCF7656.jpg
Inside of side cover....... What it looks like on a clean tissue

#2 KennyP ONLINE  

KennyP

    FORDoholic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2253
  • 28,518 Thanks
  • 39,736 posts
  • Location: Collinsville, Oklahoma

Posted May 19, 2012 - 10:11 AM

I would think if it were coming out the exhaust, it would be smoking pretty good. Is the crankcase breather nearby? It may need looked at.

#3 JDBrian OFFLINE  

JDBrian

    Super Moderator

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2507
  • 9,574 Thanks
  • 14,136 posts
  • Location: Hubley, Nova Scotia - Canada

Posted May 19, 2012 - 11:08 AM

Kenny there was just a slight film of oil inside the air breather and the vent pipe was not wet or dripping. Could a leaking valve seal cause this. I would think the oil would burn like you are saying. I suppose it could be coming from somewheres else but I'll have to disassemble it to see where.

#4 chris m OFFLINE  

chris m

    Tractorholic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 8148
  • 3,277 Thanks
  • 4,033 posts
  • Location: Charlestown,Rhode Island

Posted May 19, 2012 - 12:39 PM

That is strange Brian. I was thinking condensation in the muffler at 1st, But like Kenny said it would smoke out the exhaust if oil or anything was in it.

Is it running ok?

You said you did the HG, is it possible the head is warped a little and blowing out from there?

If the Breather tube and the gasket for the breather are dry, I would rule that out.

There is always the possibility you have crack in block, ( that's worse case)

The PTO seal maybe? But It looks from the picture that the leak is above it.

Maybe there is a bolt hole that goes all the way through into the block? And the bolt loosened up?(not sure myself on a K321)

If after you remove things to inspect it, and you still can't locate the cause, Just start over with a clean engine and watch it while it runs.

Well I wish you luck! keep us updated.

Edited by chris m, May 19, 2012 - 12:40 PM.

  • JDBrian said thank you

#5 JDBrian OFFLINE  

JDBrian

    Super Moderator

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2507
  • 9,574 Thanks
  • 14,136 posts
  • Location: Hubley, Nova Scotia - Canada

Posted May 19, 2012 - 06:13 PM

Good suggestions Chris. I wonder if it's a leak somewhere else under the shroud or near it and the flywheel fan is picking up the oil and spraying it out past the muffler. I flattened the head and deck very carefully when I did the HG. I'm going to have to pull some more of the covers off to see If I can see what's up. From the front of the engine I can see all the fins on that side and it looks totally dry. However I think the engine does have a lot of hours on it and was tossing oil out the breather before I cleaned the carbon off the piston and head/ deck. After replacing the HG it doesn't do that any more, starts and runs fine accept for an occasional waiver of speed which I think may be related to the throttle shaft which has a worn bushing. It seems to have good power and isn't noticeably smoking. It's been sitting on my trailer for a week and I've used it about 5 hours in that time and it hasn't leaked a drop onto the trailer deck. It's puzzling and I'm just going to have to take off some of the covers to find the issue. I'm hoping it's not a cracked block but who knows with an old engine. These engines are impressive to me. I know this one was abused as most of the cooling fins and the flywheel screen were pretty much plugged with dirt. It must have been running hot. Yet some basic maintenance and it was back working again. It seems to have a lot of power as well. I am mostly running at about 3000 rpms or less and it's all the power I need to do box blade work. I'll let you guys know what I find.
  • KennyP and chris m have said thanks

#6 olcowhand ONLINE  

olcowhand

    Red Tractor Nut & Diesel Addict

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Sponsor
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 20
  • 35,653 Thanks
  • 29,841 posts
  • Location: South Central Kentucky

Posted May 19, 2012 - 08:03 PM

I'd say it's coming from the valve spring cover, or possibly the governor shaft. If the front seal leaks, it could get blown back there, but likely around the other side of the head too if it were that seal.
  • JDBrian said thank you

#7 JDBrian OFFLINE  

JDBrian

    Super Moderator

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2507
  • 9,574 Thanks
  • 14,136 posts
  • Location: Hubley, Nova Scotia - Canada

Posted May 20, 2012 - 06:41 AM

Thanks Daniel. I'm hoping it's a leak that's easily fixed or not a critical repair. It must be a leak that is only there when it's running because it hasn't dripped a drop onto the trailer and it's been on there all week except for the work I did with it at the church. It looks like it's something on that side of the motor with all the access covers and the carb. That flywheel fan sends a lot of air out through the shroud on the front now that all the fins and screen are clean. The motor seems to run cool.

#8 JDBrian OFFLINE  

JDBrian

    Super Moderator

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2507
  • 9,574 Thanks
  • 14,136 posts
  • Location: Hubley, Nova Scotia - Canada

Posted May 20, 2012 - 12:54 PM

Well, got the covers and the muffler off the 314 and it looks like it might be a cracked block to me. I can't figure out where else the oil could be coming from. On a brighter note my HG job from last year looks like it's holding fine! LOL. Anyway, heres some photos for you guys to ponder. It must be a hairline crack I guess. It's been running for about 10hrs since the engine was cleaned and nothing has dripped off it yet so this is the extent of the leakage. Not a lot of oil but still a big problem. My first reaction is Chinese Diesel Repower! But I will probably put it back together and use it for now. Any advice greatly appreciated.
DSCF7657.jpg DSCF7658.jpg

DSCF7659.jpg DSCF7660.jpg

DSCF7661.jpg DSCF7662.jpg

#9 KennyP ONLINE  

KennyP

    FORDoholic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2253
  • 28,518 Thanks
  • 39,736 posts
  • Location: Collinsville, Oklahoma

Posted May 20, 2012 - 01:12 PM

That is an odd spot for a leak. Hmmmmmm? Don't know what to say!

#10 olcowhand ONLINE  

olcowhand

    Red Tractor Nut & Diesel Addict

  • Staff Admin
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Sponsor
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 20
  • 35,653 Thanks
  • 29,841 posts
  • Location: South Central Kentucky

Posted May 20, 2012 - 01:38 PM

Only one time in my life did I have a K series crack. It was in the cylinder bore & hard to see, but about 1 1/2" long. It kept the cylinder fins wet, but never any oil spots anywhere. May be your case here though.
  • JDBrian said thank you

#11 bgkid2966 OFFLINE  

bgkid2966

    Member

  • Senior Member
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 8254
  • 1,407 Thanks
  • 1,327 posts
  • Location: Aurora, Illinois

Posted May 20, 2012 - 05:50 PM

That is definitely a strange spot for a leak. I think I would clean the area again all the way down in the fins and then run it and keep an eye on it with a flashlight to pinpoint the leak. From there it will be decision time. Just my humble opinion.

Geno
  • JDBrian said thank you

#12 chris m OFFLINE  

chris m

    Tractorholic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 8148
  • 3,277 Thanks
  • 4,033 posts
  • Location: Charlestown,Rhode Island

Posted May 20, 2012 - 06:13 PM

Hmmmm. Are the Fins dry on the flywheel side?

It might be a small crack, If it is I would use it until It gives out then repower. (never know it may last years)

The other thing I see, In your last picture the front head bolt (left side of pic) looks wet in the area of the HG. Or am I seeing things?

Other than that do as Geno suggested, Clean it good and keep an eye on it.

Good luck!

#13 JDBrian OFFLINE  

JDBrian

    Super Moderator

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2507
  • 9,574 Thanks
  • 14,136 posts
  • Location: Hubley, Nova Scotia - Canada

Posted May 20, 2012 - 08:30 PM

Hmmmm. Are the Fins dry on the flywheel side?

It might be a small crack, If it is I would use it until It gives out then repower. (never know it may last years)

The other thing I see, In your last picture the front head bolt (left side of pic) looks wet in the area of the HG. Or am I seeing things?

Other than that do as Geno suggested, Clean it good and keep an eye on it.

Good luck!

Chris, I didn't take the flywheel shroud off because I'd have to pretty much pull the engine to do it. I used an inspection camera to look at that side and it looked clean. I'll take a closer look at the HG again tomorrow. The largest amount of oil seems to be concentrated in the middle section of the cylinder. This engine was very oily when I did the HG last year and I thought it was due to the HG leaking but it did seem odd that that much oil would be on the cylinder due to the HG. I think it's been leaking for a while. I'll see if I can clean it up and run it to identify the leak.
  • chris m said thank you

#14 caseguy OFFLINE  

caseguy

    Connoisseur of Rusty Junk

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 906
  • 1,624 Thanks
  • 5,600 posts
  • Location: Edinburg, PA

Posted May 20, 2012 - 09:30 PM

It looks to me like the oil is coming from the area above where the fins are actually wet. It may be a head gasket. The fins at the top would be hotter during running and might burn of the wet oil there, leaving the wet spot below it. It does appear that it could be the "jug" that's cracked, but try to be optimistic until you know for sure!
  • JDBrian said thank you

#15 IamSherwood OFFLINE  

IamSherwood

    Elf guardian

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 2066
  • 8,379 Thanks
  • 7,696 posts
  • Location: Northern Ontario

Posted May 20, 2012 - 10:09 PM

I agrre with Caseguy. In the third pic, it sure looks like there is an oil
shean, on the 2 upper fins, below the stud, that holds the lifting bracket.
That stud may be bottomed out.
  • JDBrian said thank you




Top