Jump to content

Nominations for Tractor of the Month
Garden Tractors and Parts on eBay



Photo
- - - - -

Starting An Engine, With Another Engine


  • Please log in to reply
40 replies to this topic

#16 Ryan313 OFFLINE  

Ryan313

    PK Fanatic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 7087
  • 3,239 Thanks
  • 5,159 posts
  • Location: Wallkill, NY

Posted May 11, 2012 - 10:50 PM

LOL, OK. This is to funny tonight, we have been going back and forth for hours :smilewink:


Quite a while now that I think of it! I know it was light out when we first started. :wave:

#17 chris m OFFLINE  

chris m

    Tractorholic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 8148
  • 3,277 Thanks
  • 4,033 posts
  • Location: Charlestown,Rhode Island

Posted May 11, 2012 - 10:52 PM

Quite a while now that I think of it! I know it was light out when we first started. :wave:

OMG! It's not light out anymore? LOL
  • Ryan313 said thank you

#18 Ryan313 OFFLINE  

Ryan313

    PK Fanatic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 7087
  • 3,239 Thanks
  • 5,159 posts
  • Location: Wallkill, NY

Posted May 11, 2012 - 11:03 PM

OMG! It's not light out anymore? LOL


Mornin' Chris! And no, unlike us, the sun decided to call it a night. (lame pun intended)

#19 chris m OFFLINE  

chris m

    Tractorholic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 8148
  • 3,277 Thanks
  • 4,033 posts
  • Location: Charlestown,Rhode Island

Posted May 11, 2012 - 11:05 PM

Mornin' Chris! And no, unlike us, the sun decided to call it a night. (lame pun intended)

LOL. See you later on today :laughingteeth:
  • Ryan313 said thank you

#20 Amigatec OFFLINE  

Amigatec

    Collector of Rusty Junk

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5899
  • 2,023 Thanks
  • 3,172 posts
  • Location: Haskell Oklahoma

Posted May 12, 2012 - 06:00 AM

That actually used to be the way that some of the old time tractors were started. The larger, higher compression engines were a real bear to crank start, so there was a smaller pull start engine on it called a pony motor that was used to start the larger engine. Great thinking Ryan! This is probably a dumb question, but are you sure that the PTO was spinning the Briggs engine the right direction?


Your older Caterpillar motors started this way, they had a small 2 cyl gas engine mounted on the side of the Diesel motor. When they worked they worked very good. You would use the compression release to release compression, and after the motor built oil pressure you would disengage the comp release and start the motor.

Edited by Amigatec, May 12, 2012 - 06:11 AM.

  • caseguy said thank you

#21 Amigatec OFFLINE  

Amigatec

    Collector of Rusty Junk

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5899
  • 2,023 Thanks
  • 3,172 posts
  • Location: Haskell Oklahoma

Posted May 12, 2012 - 06:10 AM

Not a dumb question, but it is in the right direction of rotation.


I have more than one Diesel engine start and run backwards, gas engines won't do it, but Diesels will. You don't want to run them very long like that because the oil pump is spinning backwards as well.
  • caseguy said thank you

#22 caseguy OFFLINE  

caseguy

    Connoisseur of Rusty Junk

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 906
  • 1,624 Thanks
  • 5,600 posts
  • Location: Edinburg, PA

Posted May 12, 2012 - 07:30 AM

Your older Caterpillar motors started this way, they had a small 2 cyl gas engine mounted on the side of the Diesel motor. When they worked they worked very good. You would use the compression release to release compression, and after the motor built oil pressure you would disengage the comp release and start the motor.


Thanks! I knew that I'd seen one before, but couldn't remember the manufacturer. Now that you mention it, one of the members of our club has an old Cat with that set up on it. I believe that there may have been other, earlier examples as well.

I have more than one Diesel engine start and run backwards, gas engines won't do it, but Diesels will. You don't want to run them very long like that because the oil pump is spinning backwards as well.


I wasn't concerned with it running backward, just would explain why it wouldn't stay "running" when he stopped the PTO. Of course it's a moot point since it was spinning correctly.

#23 Ryan313 OFFLINE  

Ryan313

    PK Fanatic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 7087
  • 3,239 Thanks
  • 5,159 posts
  • Location: Wallkill, NY

Posted May 12, 2012 - 07:34 AM

I remember I was a t a tractor show/ pull and there was one big tractor that did that. I don't know what it was but it was a big beefy tractor and it was blue.

#24 Amigatec OFFLINE  

Amigatec

    Collector of Rusty Junk

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5899
  • 2,023 Thanks
  • 3,172 posts
  • Location: Haskell Oklahoma

Posted May 12, 2012 - 07:43 AM

I believe Locomotives are started this way as well, I have heard they use Cummins Diesels as pony starters.

Diesels will run backwards because the fuel is injected into the cylinder and heat sets it off. On gas motors the carb would be on the exhaust side if spinning backwards and would never start.

The first time I started a Cat backwards was on an old scrapper, the pony motor was bad and wouldn't start so we just pushed it to start. I wasn't sure what gear I had it in, and when it started, I noticed smoke coming from the air cleaner, and the motor sounded funny. When I tried to move it, I had 5 reverse gears. DUUUHHH!!! I figured out real quick what I had done. I shut it off and found a forward gear and we started it again.

Sometimes it will happen to a truck as well. I used to work at a rock quarry and a driver was pulling up onto the scale, the motor died and he clutched it to restart it, it rolled backwards and started backwards, this was with a Detroit Diesel. The first time happenes it will make you scratch your head trying to figure out what you did wrong. Just shut it off and restart it, it will be fine.
  • Toolpartzman said thank you

#25 Amigatec OFFLINE  

Amigatec

    Collector of Rusty Junk

  • Senior Member
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 5899
  • 2,023 Thanks
  • 3,172 posts
  • Location: Haskell Oklahoma

Posted May 12, 2012 - 07:59 AM

Pony motor starting a D2 Cat.



  • ducky, caseguy, Ryan313 and 1 other said thanks

#26 Ryan313 OFFLINE  

Ryan313

    PK Fanatic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 7087
  • 3,239 Thanks
  • 5,159 posts
  • Location: Wallkill, NY

Posted May 12, 2012 - 11:41 AM

I cleaned the carb, put the gas tank back on and tried again. It did the same thing as last time. Although, I noticed that the engine was not heating the way a normal engine would. Then it hit me that what I thought was exhaust is actually just air blowing through the block like it normally would. I took the plug wire off to see if that was the case and after removing the wire it still did the same exact thing so apparently it's not firering like I had previously thought. Moving the throttle must just be changing the air flow making it sound different.

#27 Lauber1 OFFLINE  

Lauber1

    DB restorer

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 4926
  • 3,440 Thanks
  • 2,796 posts
  • Location: S.E.IOWA

Posted May 12, 2012 - 02:47 PM

we call that method "chain smoking", and its done to DB tractors at shows all time.

#28 Ryan313 OFFLINE  

Ryan313

    PK Fanatic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 7087
  • 3,239 Thanks
  • 5,159 posts
  • Location: Wallkill, NY

Posted May 12, 2012 - 04:05 PM

I put some gas in the cylinder and it would run for about 5 seconds then stall. I did that almost 10 times before I loosened the feel jet on the carb one full turn and it ran. It didn't run good so I have been messing with the jets and I am not getting it to run good. Once I get it going good and driving I will post a video. I don't know how long that will be, I have never messed with carburetors other then cleaning them so this is new to me. Any tips or advice would be appreciated!

#29 DougT OFFLINE  

DougT

    Dog Approved

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 584
  • 5,716 Thanks
  • 4,274 posts
  • Location: north central Ohio

Posted May 12, 2012 - 06:30 PM

Ryan, the jet on the bottom is the main jet. The one up by the throttle is the idle jet. Start about 1 to 1 1/2 turns out. Adjust the main jet first for the best performance with the throttle open. After it is adjusted, then adjust the idle mixture screw to get the best performance at idle. The main jet will affect the idle but the idle shouldn't affect the main. Always do the main first.
  • KennyP said thank you

#30 Ryan313 OFFLINE  

Ryan313

    PK Fanatic

  • Super Moderator
  • Staff
  • -GTt Supporter-
  • Contributor
  • Member No: 7087
  • 3,239 Thanks
  • 5,159 posts
  • Location: Wallkill, NY

Posted May 12, 2012 - 07:24 PM

See, I did not know that! I will trythat tomorrow morning and see how it goes.




Top