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John Deere / MTD Debate


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#1 Tmo OFFLINE  

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Posted February 27, 2012 - 07:42 AM

Very well, thanks for the model no., seems like thoses models are reasonably well built before MTD cheapened it, i don't work on very many of them, no reason to, good well built Kohler engines, hopefully it has not been beat down.


HUH? JD makes all their lawn and garden tractors, and has since 1963. The higher priced units are made in Horicon, Wisonsin, while the L-series (now D-series) are made in a John Deer plant in Tennessee. MTD doesn't have anything to do with John Deere lawn tractors.

#2 trowel OFFLINE  

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Posted February 27, 2012 - 09:32 AM

This is a very touchy subject for a lot of Deere collectors so to clear things up i will post a link and a quote someone from MTF :

''Deere makes their own tractors, ALL of them from big to little. Deere has factories all over the world. They do buy components from outside sources like bearings, engines, tires, lights, wire, belts, etc. Some attachments for lawn and garden tractors are made by outside firms like Beromac for snowblowers. Murray made Deere walk behind snowblowers and before them, Ariens made them. Deere's walk behind blowers are now branded Frontier, not Deere and they are made by somebody, I'm not sure exactly who since Murray is no more. Deere's plant in Tennessee was built to access cheaper non-union labor, to be able to build machines that would compete with Sears, Walmart, etc on price. I think the source of confusion is that MTD also builds in Tennessee (for the same lower cost labor). Tennessee is a right to work state that favors non-union factories. MTD offers someone like Toro an opertunity to access the economy of mass production in making lawn and garden tractors. MTD builds machines under many different brands like Bolens, White, MTD, Cub Cadet, Troy-Bilt and others and now Toro. Certain components are common to all saving tooling costs, but other parts are up graded as required to meet varying specifications like bearings vs. bushings. It cost a big PILE of money to make the tooling to stamp out fender decks and mower decks, so it makes economic sense to maximize that tooling's use. Different engines can be fitted onto a common platform, different bearings used, accessories like tachs, comfy seats, lights, can separate MTD's offerings much like a Caddy Escalade is distinct from a Chevy SUV, or a Lincoln SUV is different from a Ford Excursion. Tor's line of lawn and garden equipment is just a small piece of their total product line, Thye make a LOT of pro turf equipment for golf courses, parks and also irrigation equipment. They didn't want to invest the money to build new stuff from scratch to try to compete with Deere and MTD that could be sold at the box stores' price levels, so they made a deal with MTD to build 'em. I hope that clears up a little of the confusion about who builds what. ''

#3 trowel OFFLINE  

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Posted February 27, 2012 - 09:42 AM

If you want to debate the John Deere/AYP/MTD cohesion please do so on a new thread as so not to take away from dstaggs 's thread on his 210, and in case your wondering, no, im not a AYP/MTD supporter of any kind looking to start trouble.
MTD did cheapen JD's line of GTs and LMs, JD needed to stay competitive in the small tractor market,
this is the primary reason i stay away from the newer JD and Cub Cadet threads and fourms, instead of calmly asking why an immediate war is started that i want no part of.

#4 Tmo OFFLINE  

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Posted February 27, 2012 - 12:44 PM

Those links only provide more opinions, rumors and myths. Fact is that the original poster's 210 was made in Horicon, Wisconsin using a Kohler engine and a Peerless transmission. Fender deck, hood, all sheet metal, frame, deck shell was all made by Deere in Horicon. It's naive to think that Deere makes all the parts that make up a tractor as there are bearing manufacturers, belt manufacturers, tire manufacturers, etc. This is common to most brands, but JD has placed strict specifications on most of their suppliers, i.e. belts which have to built to a specific Deere requirement.

#5 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted February 27, 2012 - 05:52 PM

I split the derailment from the original topic. If you guys would like to debate it you are more then welcome to. I also removed the links pointing back to the other site due to not knowing what information is truly accurate.

#6 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted February 27, 2012 - 05:56 PM

MTD did cheapen JD's line of GTs and LMs, JD needed to stay competitive in the small tractor market,


I don't know the facts other then what I have read and this seems to me to be what has happened with the lower end John Deere products. Not that they are bad but that they did have to use cheaper methods of manufacturing to remain competitive in the homeowner market. The average homeowner market is the biggest money maker for all of them so John Deere would be foolish to not try to retain some of that market share.

If I am wrong on those thoughts you are more then welcome to discuss them here.
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#7 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted February 27, 2012 - 08:30 PM

I don't know the facts other then what I have read and this seems to me to be what has happened with the lower end John Deere products. Not that they are bad but that they did have to use cheaper methods of manufacturing to remain competitive in the homeowner market. The average homeowner market is the biggest money maker for all of them so John Deere would be foolish to not try to retain some of that market share.

If I am wrong on those thoughts you are more then welcome to discuss them here.


That about covers it George. I'm sure JD is still selling a lot of the more expensive LT/GT's as well. The 700 series is a real GT but the price is similar to a good used car. At my dealer they are moving a fair number of the x500 series as well but personally I don't think they are as well made as the earlier GT's.

#8 josh deaven OFFLINE  

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Posted February 27, 2012 - 09:29 PM

I agree with you jdbrain.Jd is going to redesign the x7xx series in the near future.I was told by the saleman that the series will not able have loader on them.This way they can sell more compacts. Later Josh
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#9 caseguy OFFLINE  

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Posted February 27, 2012 - 09:49 PM

I cannot speak for who makes them, but my neighbor and my Dad both have JD L130's. IMHO they are not worth the cost. I have replaced the front axle on my neighbor's twice as well as one of the frot spindles once (I could've replaced it twice as well, but the first time I welded it up instead.) My Dad's was a decent machine, but the Tuff Torque K46 went out of it this last summer and it's not designed to be serviceable. It doesn't even have a drain plug or fill tube to be able to change the fluid! Again, IMHO these newer box store JD's are an embarrassment to the name.

#10 trowel OFFLINE  

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Posted February 27, 2012 - 11:42 PM

I gauge a tractor's worth by how many times it comes back to be fixed, and the quality of parts.

#11 Cvans ONLINE  

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Posted February 27, 2012 - 11:50 PM

One question please. Who on earth made the JD Sabre. That was truly a gumball tractor if there ever was one. If you happen to own one and are happy with it I meant no hard feelings but that machine wasn't even JD green.

#12 trowel OFFLINE  

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Posted February 28, 2012 - 12:07 AM

Sabres are as much John Deere as the Scotts are. They are not cheap John Deere imitations but are inexpensive tractors manufactured by John Deere employees meant to compete with other manufacturers in the same price range and market. Sabre ans Scotts and the L series are made at one of the only non union Deere plants in Tenn. The X300 series to the X700series are made in Horricon Wisconsin at a union Plant. The last model year of the Sabre's and Scotts lawn tractors were made on the current L/LA series frames The older Sabre and Scotts lawn tractors (Deere made Scotts)were built on the STX frame the Sabre/Scotts Garden tractors (Deere made Scotts) are built on the GT275 frame. The parts are not completely interchangable for instance the Front spindle's and Axles are diffrent between the Sabre&Scotts the G100 was also made on the GT275 frame the G110 was made on the same frame as the rest of the L series lawn tractor frames but it had a GT transsmission.
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#13 trowel OFFLINE  

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Posted February 28, 2012 - 12:08 AM

Any questions ?

#14 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted February 28, 2012 - 06:45 AM

I agree with you jdbrain.Jd is going to redesign the x7xx series in the near future.I was told by the saleman that the series will not able have loader on them.This way they can sell more compacts. Later Josh


IMO if you need a loader you are better off with a SCUT than the 700 series. I can see where JD is coming from on that. If you price up a 700series diesel 4wd with a rear pto and 3pt hitch and a loader it will probably cost you more than the 1023SCUT. The 1023 is about 3-400lbs heavier than the 700 and has a low range, and a ROPS. I hope they don't cheapen the 700's by making them with lighter frames and axles because it is one of the few choices out there for those who want a true HD GT. A super mowing machine as well.
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#15 NUTNDUN OFFLINE  

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Posted February 28, 2012 - 08:16 AM

Alright gang,
I am going to close this thread to avoid going down the same path as political discussions do. I was going to post a long winded reply but I feel it is best if I just close it and it not be taken as me getting the last word in.

The only thing I can say though is if all the brands that we all love were either still in business or had market share in the same target market that the big box stores sell to then this same debate would apply to their brand as well.
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