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#1 tinner OFFLINE  

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Posted January 31, 2012 - 10:04 PM

I have a Snapper 1600 that I put a three point hitch on from a parts 1650 I have. I want to add hydraulics and was considering buying a Case 3016 pump or something similar, mounting it under the engine and running it off the electronic front PTO that normally powers the mower deck or direct drive it in front of the engine. There is room to build and install a reservoir tank under the seat that would hold 2 - 3 quarts of oil. I could also remove the electronic clutch and just install a pulley if needed but kinda like the idea of being able to turn it off and on for some reason. Any ideas, suggestions or :rofl2: would be appreciated. I don't want to wind up with a bunch of $$$ invested and be :wallbanging:

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#2 Texas Deere and Horse OFFLINE  

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Posted January 31, 2012 - 10:14 PM

Ronnie, i would mount it just the way you described, and I would leave the clutch in there so you can turn it on and off.

You might want a bigger tank and maybe a cooler for the oil.
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#3 Bolens iseki OFFLINE  

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Posted February 01, 2012 - 04:42 AM

i dont thing your going to need a cooler for the oil but you will need a bigger tank at least a gallon
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#4 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 01, 2012 - 05:09 AM

The pump is far to large for just a 3 point hitch, and at 8 plus gpm it would not be happy with just a gallon of oil, especially running it through small lines. You could use an electric/hydraulic unit like TORO/Wheelhorse used on thier 260 series .
All you need is at most 3 gpm, then a 3 quart resivoure would be fine.
Belting it off the pto would work fine, but I always like mine running all the time , and would try to drive it off the flywheel side instead. Then I don't need to remove anything to run my mower :thumbs:
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Here are a few shots of how I did it on Briggs twin in a Ford LGT.
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#5 mikebramel OFFLINE  

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Posted February 01, 2012 - 08:55 PM

The reservoir really only is to take care of the cylinder displacement. One gallon is fine. You wont really be using it so you wont need a cooler. 8gpm sounds about what it is. That is pretty big, but will work. Of course, it is that GPM at direct drive. You will need 1/2", maybe 3/8" hoses. If you were to spin it at half the speed with a larger pulley you would be fine with the smaller hoses.
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#6 tinner OFFLINE  

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Posted February 02, 2012 - 01:13 AM

mikebramen

The reservoir really only is to take care of the cylinder displacement. One gallon is fine. If you were to spin it at half the speed with a larger pulley you would be fine with the smaller hoses.


That's what I was thinking Mike. Also, using a smaller pulley would probably give me a little more room for mounting etc. Looked on eBay at 12 volt electric pumps and they were quite a bit more expensive than what I can get one from a Case. Think I'll give it a whirl after a little more checking around locally for a used pump. Guess I could always pull the pump off my brother's Case 646 while he's at work as he wouldn't miss it until he tried to use it.

#7 TUDOR OFFLINE  

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Posted February 02, 2012 - 03:55 AM

The normal cylinder for that application is 2" dia x 4" stroke or 12.6 cubic inches. If you cut the speed of that 8 gpm Case pump in half to 4 gpm, full stroke going out will take about 0.8 seconds. The return stroke will be even faster, and for that application, the return stroke is the lifting stroke.

Best to find a smaller pump in the 2 gpm range. A GM P/S pump would be ideal.
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#8 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 02, 2012 - 05:01 AM

If you used the pto pulley to drive the pump, and just wanted to turn it slower, you would need an 8-9" pulley on the pump, and that's only if the pto pulley is 4" .
Even at 4gpm it still needs 1 gallon of resivoure oil for cooling, as it has no mass to help cool it, ie steel tube, motion valve ,hydraulic motor attached to oil filled transmission .
Never mind the fact that the pump wasn't designed for side load, from a sprocket or belt. Just not really a good idea to belt a gear pump unless it is designed for it. Most have a heavier double bearing arrangement in the nose section for this.
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#9 tinner OFFLINE  

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Posted February 02, 2012 - 02:02 PM

I have a power steering pump from a 1998 Chevy pickup that I could use. With the built in reservoir I could still add another reservoir if needed or, just a cooling coil. Would like to run steel lines with hose at each end for isolation. Will have to change the pulley on the pump to a v-belt but that's no problem. Think I'll pull it out and check for fit and placement before I do anything else. That'll be tomorrow or Saturday because of all these "Honey Do's" I've gotten piled on since we got back from or trip to Oregon.

#10 olcowhand OFFLINE  

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Posted February 02, 2012 - 08:21 PM

I know the Case pumps were designed for direct in-line drive, but on my Massey w/FEL, I am using a Case 446 hydraulic pump, driven by belt. It's been going for over 6 1/2 years & does a lot of work. But for your application, I would also recommend a much smaller pump as cylinder speed would be too fast, and oil would heat. You being in Texas would make heat a big issue.
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#11 TUDOR OFFLINE  

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Posted February 03, 2012 - 04:24 AM

I have a power steering pump from a 1998 Chevy pickup that I could use. With the built in reservoir I could still add another reservoir if needed or, just a cooling coil. Would like to run steel lines with hose at each end for isolation.


The built in reservoir definitely needs some expansion. It won't support operating even a small cylinder as it is. Another quart is lots. At one time, GM had power steering cylinders on some cars supported by these pumps, with only a slightly larger reservoir. '59 -'64 Chevys to be precise, as well as others. The combination made a great blade lift for my MF12H, needing only a compression fitting, hoses and a set of valves and fittings to complete.

There are 2 options for the pressure port on the pump. Either find the special adapter fitting for the pump to convert it to conventional hydraulic fittings, or use a hydraulic compression fitting on the existing steel pump line to convert to conventional hydraulic fittings. I think that I went with option 2 when I did mine over 30 years ago.

I wouldn't get too excited about overheating this type of system. My set up came out of a car's engine compartment and I used it in the nice cool open air, nowhere near a V-8's exhaust manifold.

Edited by TUDOR, February 03, 2012 - 04:43 AM.

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#12 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted February 03, 2012 - 05:26 AM

Tinner, now your talking, that pump you have will do the job perfectly ,no need for more oil, it is the same pump I have on my Ford 1841 Industrial with nothing added, and the cylinder is 2" X12" stoke with a 3/4" rod , only oil dis-placed is the volume of the rod . And may I add, the steering on this tractor is RETARDED! it will peal the tires off the bead if they are buried in dirt, and fast , never operated any tractor with steering that works this well ! And all it has is a gm p/s pump and Char-Lynn steering valve.(factory steering on these in 1958 was an abortion to say the least)
Back on subject, remember the pump needs to turn clockwise, the pulley requires a special tool to remove it and another to install! DO NOT TRY TO DRIVE IT ON WITH A HAMMER INSTANT FAILURE WILL RESULT.
If at all possible, drive it from the blower side of the engine, but not nessesary, as Bob mentioned adapting the fitting can be a minor challenge, easiest way, get a hydraulic compression type hose end for that fitting unless it is destroyed from rust or missing all together? In that case you could either by a new hose and cut off the tube , or modify the existing fitting in the pump. (access to a lathe and a port cutter for sae straight thread a real plus here) . Or carefully drill and tap for npt thread.
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#13 Toolpartzman OFFLINE  

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Posted February 03, 2012 - 07:21 AM

I enjoy these hydraulic subjects, particularly in learning how mobile/GTT issues are somewhat different from the industrial world I know. There's always lots of good help from guys with tons of experience with success of their own GTs. What always seems to get lost in the conversation though is WHAT is the design GOAL? In industrial work to lose site of that means tens of thousands of $$ in extra parts, not just a few hundred.

I would urge that you begin with a visable idea of the motion and control then next "do the math-its free." Then, go shopping and build and fit from that base. The picture I get here is quite fast motion, perhaps faster than you can accurately control with a hand valve. Also, if the cylinder being discussed is a 2x4 with a 3/4 rod dia., then return fluid velocities (@4GPM/-8 hose) in retract are high enough to generate heat-(OCH's comment). That said, if you have low cycle times--that heat may disipate-no big deal. Same thing again, speed of full lift/lower may be your preferrence over better control of the implement.

Edited by Toolpartzman, February 03, 2012 - 07:25 AM.
punctuation

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