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Craftsman 917272244 20hp Twin Kohler Now It Won't Start :(


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#1 reddsky OFFLINE  

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Posted January 15, 2012 - 07:40 PM

I'm back with another problem. *sigh* I went out today to purge the air in the transmission lines, mower starts right up. I back out of carport, stop engine, get off & disengage flywheel. I climb back on the mower turn they key and nothing. So I bounce around in the seat (because sometimes I have to do that in order to get mower started) and still nothing. I get off & check the battery terminals & decide to see if battery needs a charge? I hook up my charger/analyzer and the battery is barely down at all. I go ahead charge it fully (barely 5min.). I cleaned the pos. terminal since it did have some corrosion on it. I climb back up and turn the key; NOTHING. I have never had any engine problems and if you remember my other post, this mower just came back from being serviced, new oil, new belts, including new drive belt.
I am a girl and NO mechanic, but I keep thinking this is related to that seat safety switch, but I don't know how to go about fixing. Just seems so weird that it started right up as it ALWAYS has (except for the seat switch being testy). Or, could it be a fuse somewhere? I pulled up some schematics and WHOA; out of my league. :confuse:
Any ideas, guys? I appreciate your help!! :smile1:

Could it be a fuse? Where do I look for those? I may need to find a how to video on Youtube lol !! I am a visual learner. :anyone:

Edited by reddsky, January 15, 2012 - 08:05 PM.


#2 KennyP OFFLINE  

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Posted January 16, 2012 - 09:05 AM

Did you turn the PTO switch off? It won't start with that on. Can you post a pic of the schematics? Maybe we can help you figure it out with that. Most times, the safety switches will cause these kind of problems. Could be the seat switch gave up on you or needs adjusted for your weight.

#3 reddsky OFFLINE  

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Posted January 16, 2012 - 01:55 PM

Did you turn the PTO switch off? It won't start with that on. Can you post a pic of the schematics? Maybe we can help you figure it out with that. Most times, the safety switches will cause these kind of problems. Could be the seat switch gave up on you or needs adjusted for your weight.


Kenny,

I will try and post a copy of the schematics, once I locate again. The one diagram was very simple, but for me, still challenging. LOL My husband had to disable the safety switch on our NH tractor because I wasn't heavy enough to keep it engaged. We went through everything and anything before determining this as the culprit. He figured it out on his own. I am going out now to see if I can disable the safety switch w/o cutting wires. I saw one pic. where a guy used zip ties, but I have to determine if that will even work on this one. Husband is out of town a lot for business so I fly solo a lot. And, Murphy's Law seems to apply when he's gone. Luckily, it is not really mowing season yet, but our winter has been so mild thus far that I actually did use it some. Wish me luck! And, thank you for trying to help! Will give status update later.

Forgot: yes, the PTO is actually a knob that you have to pull out. I made sure that it was fully depressed.

#4 GTTinkerer OFFLINE  

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Posted January 16, 2012 - 02:04 PM

I would start by disconnecting the seat safety switch and "jumping" (temporarily to test only) to wiring harness plug since that was the area causing problems earlier. There a couple of other safety switches that could also be causing the problem those being the clutch pedal switch and the PTO switch.

Jumping the switches to test is fairly simple, just pull the plug and use a short wire to poke it in the terminals on the plug to complete the circuit.

Bill

#5 reddsky OFFLINE  

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Posted January 16, 2012 - 05:40 PM

I would start by disconnecting the seat safety switch and "jumping" (temporarily to test only) to wiring harness plug since that was the area causing problems earlier. There a couple of other safety switches that could also be causing the problem those being the clutch pedal switch and the PTO switch.

Jumping the switches to test is fairly simple, just pull the plug and use a short wire to poke it in the terminals on the plug to complete the circuit.

Bill


I unplugged the safety switch from the plug. But I am not sure exactly what I am suppose to do to 'jump' e.g. complete the circuit? Do I stick a piece of wire or maybe even a paperclip into each side of the plug creating a half circle? Please excuse my ignorance, but I no experience with this stuff. I was also going to test my solenoid, but I can't even find the stupid thing. ugh I do know what they look like, but I still cannot find it. Is there a way for me to test my ignition switch also? Here is a link to the manual for my mower: OwnersManual917272244EngineCV624(1)

I was going to test the solenoid, but can't find it. :confuse:
Thanks again for your time and patience. :smile1::worshippy2:

#6 reddsky OFFLINE  

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Posted January 16, 2012 - 07:25 PM

I would start by disconnecting the seat safety switch and "jumping" (temporarily to test only) to wiring harness plug since that was the area causing problems earlier. There a couple of other safety switches that could also be causing the problem those being the clutch pedal switch and the PTO switch.

Jumping the switches to test is fairly simple, just pull the plug and use a short wire to poke it in the terminals on the plug to complete the circuit.

Bill


I just now cut the wires going to the plug on the seat safety switch. I left them cut e.g. open and tried to start. Nothing. I then twisted them together and applied a wire nut and tried to start mower again. Nothing. So can I conclude the seat safety switch is not the culprit?

Thanks again!!

#7 KennyP OFFLINE  

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Posted January 17, 2012 - 04:15 AM

Got your schematic. There is a fuse before the ignition switch. Twisting the wires together will suffice for 'jumping' the circuit. From the looks of the schematic, you have three safety switches: seat, PTO off, & clutch/brake pedal down. If you follow the positive battery cable down, it should be hooked onto the solenoid. There is a wire hooked there that feeds the ignition thru a fuse, then the amp gauge.
917272244.jpg
See if you can find that fuse, it may be behind the dash, close to the amp gauge. Not sure. If it is good, then either the PTO switch or the clutch/brake switch is the culprit.

#8 reddsky OFFLINE  

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Posted January 17, 2012 - 10:36 AM

Got your schematic. There is a fuse before the ignition switch. Twisting the wires together will suffice for 'jumping' the circuit. From the looks of the schematic, you have three safety switches: seat, PTO off, & clutch/brake pedal down. If you follow the positive battery cable down, it should be hooked onto the solenoid. There is a wire hooked there that feeds the ignition thru a fuse, then the amp gauge.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]28194[/ATTACH]
See if you can find that fuse, it may be behind the dash, close to the amp gauge. Not sure. If it is good, then either the PTO switch or the clutch/brake switch is the culprit.


I did find one fuse yesterday, 25amp. I replaced with new one. It was pretty beat and when I took it out, the silver contact just broke off. I will take your directions out with me later today and see if I can put into action. I don't remember finding any fuse close to the amp gauge or near the ignition switch. The one I found seemed to be just 'hanging' out there but I would have to say somewhat 'near' the dash. So maybe that's the one. I keep reading a lot of reference to a 30amp fuse and I have yet to find one of those. I 'think' I may have located the solenoid yesterday. It is next to the starter and they actually appear to be one piece, but I 'think' the solenoid is inside a casing? Thank you again for being so helpful!! I am learning a lot so how can that be anything but GOOD!!
Karen

#9 HDWildBill OFFLINE  

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Posted January 18, 2012 - 06:25 PM

When you jump a switch don't cut the wires just use a wire with two bare ends and stick the bare ends in each slot that way if the switch is still good all you have to do is plug it back in. It sounds like to me if it was running and then wouldn't start back up after a brief shutdown the problem is either a switch, solenoid, or the start has a flat spot in the winding's

I had a yard machine do some thing similar a while back, it turned out the mower safety switch was a bit out of adjustment. All I did is pull back on the mower engagement lever. Try engaging and disengaging the PTO and also the clutch you may want to stand on it since it sounds like you are like my wife petite.

Do you have a meter available? Can you read one? If you can read one but don't have one you can pick one up at Home depot, Lowes, Radio Shack and a cheap one at Harbor freight, or Northern tools.

Let us know how this works.

#10 jc56 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 19, 2012 - 12:01 AM

I have a LT1000 Craftsman and the safety switch under the seat does not affect starting,only kills engine when the blades are engaged.Sounds like pto switch,brake switch or starter solenoid.That's where I would start.

#11 reddsky OFFLINE  

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Posted January 19, 2012 - 01:13 AM

When you jump a switch don't cut the wires just use a wire with two bare ends and stick the bare ends in each slot that way if the switch is still good all you have to do is plug it back in. It sounds like to me if it was running and then wouldn't start back up after a brief shutdown the problem is either a switch, solenoid, or the start has a flat spot in the winding's

I had a yard machine do some thing similar a while back, it turned out the mower safety switch was a bit out of adjustment. All I did is pull back on the mower engagement lever. Try engaging and disengaging the PTO and also the clutch you may want to stand on it since it sounds like you are like my wife petite.

Do you have a meter available? Can you read one? If you can read one but don't have one you can pick one up at Home depot, Lowes, Radio Shack and a cheap one at Harbor freight, or Northern tools.

Let us know how this works.


Thank you for your suggestions and for taking the time to reply. I am leaving for a horse show tomorrow so I will be back at it next week. Yes, I do have a meter, but I want to get a different one with clamps. The one I presently have requires using both hands which is not so user friendly imho. I want to test the solenoid. Is there a way for me to test the ignition switch? meter? jump the switch? When you state to use a wire to jump....does it have to be one continuous wire or a separate one for each plug hole?

Again thank you much!! I am kind of like a dog with a bone....I don't give up easily.

Will be back next week!
Karen

#12 HDWildBill OFFLINE  

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Posted January 19, 2012 - 02:33 PM

You can take some alligator clips and either find some old meter leads and cut the probe ends off and attache the alligator leads or you can just use the clips to hold the probe in position with the leads you have now. You should be able to insert the positive probe (red lead) into the wire end and then use one hand to throw the ignition switch and the other to ground out the black lead. you should see the meter deflect to how much voltage you are getting at that point. If it doesn't move that means you are not getting voltage.

Yes you use one continuous wire to jump a switch. I have a peg with about 10 different type of jumper wire on it.

Yes you can test both the ignition switch and the solenoid. Set you meter to DCV then locate the ignition switch under the dash disconnect the white wire, I can't make out the terminal id but it should be next to the red wire. using an alligator clip or some wire attach your Positive (red) lead to that terminal. turn the ignition switch to start and you ground out the black lead you should have about 12 volts. If not the ignition switch is bad. If you do then you will need to trace the white wire down to the clutch switch, there you should see 2 white wires the one you have been tracing and another one. Pull the other one off and once again attach the positive probe to the terminal and turn the ignition to start and ground the black meter lead. if you get power go to the PTO switch and do the same thing if you don't get power then the problem is with the clutch switch. If you have power at both switches go to the solenoid and pull the white wire and see if you have power in the wire end. If you do then the solenoid is bad. Post back your results or if you have any questions.

I works out that you will be busy this weekend. I will also be busy with grand kids so have fun.

#13 reddsky OFFLINE  

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Posted January 29, 2012 - 02:10 PM

I have a LT1000 Craftsman and the safety switch under the seat does not affect starting,only kills engine when the blades are engaged.Sounds like pto switch,brake switch or starter solenoid.That's where I would start.


Thank you for your response. Now I need to locate the pto switch and brake switch. I did find the solenoid. Any ideas on where to find the pto switch? Thank you!!

#14 reddsky OFFLINE  

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Posted January 29, 2012 - 02:14 PM

You can take some alligator clips and either find some old meter leads and cut the probe ends off and attache the alligator leads or you can just use the clips to hold the probe in position with the leads you have now. You should be able to insert the positive probe (red lead) into the wire end and then use one hand to throw the ignition switch and the other to ground out the black lead. you should see the meter deflect to how much voltage you are getting at that point. If it doesn't move that means you are not getting voltage.

Yes you use one continuous wire to jump a switch. I have a peg with about 10 different type of jumper wire on it.

Yes you can test both the ignition switch and the solenoid. Set you meter to DCV then locate the ignition switch under the dash disconnect the white wire, I can't make out the terminal id but it should be next to the red wire. using an alligator clip or some wire attach your Positive (red) lead to that terminal. turn the ignition switch to start and you ground out the black lead you should have about 12 volts. If not the ignition switch is bad. If you do then you will need to trace the white wire down to the clutch switch, there you should see 2 white wires the one you have been tracing and another one. Pull the other one off and once again attach the positive probe to the terminal and turn the ignition to start and ground the black meter lead. if you get power go to the PTO switch and do the same thing if you don't get power then the problem is with the clutch switch. If you have power at both switches go to the solenoid and pull the white wire and see if you have power in the wire end. If you do then the solenoid is bad. Post back your results or if you have any questions.

I works out that you will be busy this weekend. I will also be busy with grand kids so have fun.


Husband is home and we are trying to locate the PTO switch? I think he found the clutch switch. Any ideas? I thought I had schematic for that, but can't seem to find it now. ugh Hope you enjoyed your grand kids! Thanks again for all of your help!! We are on a mission. :)

Edited by reddsky, January 29, 2012 - 02:15 PM.
add info.


#15 HDWildBill OFFLINE  

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Posted January 29, 2012 - 07:59 PM

Husband is home and we are trying to locate the PTO switch? I think he found the clutch switch. Any ideas? I thought I had schematic for that, but can't seem to find it now. ugh Hope you enjoyed your grand kids! Thanks again for all of your help!! We are on a mission. :)


Unfortunately I don't know exactly where the switch is located but not only does it supply power to the ignition but also when engaged it supply's power to the electric clutch but it get's it's power through the seat switch you cut so find a switch that has the same color coded wires coming from the seat switch and also has a white wire and that should be the PTO switch. HTH.




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