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Powersteering/aux. Hydraulic pump


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#1 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted January 07, 2012 - 05:23 PM

Well , had an issue today with my powersteering pump, seems it Hung the internal relief up again ... Second time was the end of this issue! It was a used pump and this was why it was replaced I think ? Anyhow I fixed it good this time, basically eliminated it! All the items it powers have built in reliefs set to specs for their circuits.
Let me tell you this .... It has volume and pressure now! It will shut that Kubota diesel off right now ! And its just a tiny little pump, but man does it work nice!
This is what the rock crawler folks do to their pumps. I've been doing it for many years retroing powersteering to tractors and plow pumps on pickups and it definately makes um what they ain't :thumbs:

#2 MH81 ONLINE  

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Posted January 07, 2012 - 06:04 PM

Glad you found an end-around for the problem. As long as there are safety features in place, tripple redundant isn't necessary

#3 TUDOR OFFLINE  

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Posted January 07, 2012 - 07:45 PM

A word of caution for the folks that don't know, skyrydr2. Most of these pumps have a design that will support up to about 1500 psi. If your downstream relief valves are set higher than that, there is a real posibility of pump case failure due to thin wall castings. Utility pumps, such as are available at Northern Tool and other retailers, have much thicker castings and are not as prone to self destruction at much higher pressures. Industrial pumps with the same capacities as P/S pumps, by comparison, are massive.

You and I know this without thinking about it, Keith. Many others do not and could get into trouble with the wrong relief settings.

Edited by TUDOR, January 08, 2012 - 04:58 AM.

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#4 caseguy OFFLINE  

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Posted January 07, 2012 - 08:45 PM

Thanks for the heads up TUDOR! Many, I myself included, do not know a lot about hydraulics and that could be a really bad situation to be in. We appreciate the information. Glad that you found a way to make the system work for you Keith.

#5 TUDOR OFFLINE  

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Posted January 08, 2012 - 05:17 AM

A second heads up for anyone following this idea.

These little pumps have a built in flow control as part and parcel of the relief valve. Eliminating one eliminates the other and full flow becomes available. Too much flow through a small diameter (1/4") hose makes heat and these pumps can well exceed the max recommended flow rate depending on their rpm. Keep the rpm of the pump at or below 3600.

That all being said, this makes a great and inexpensive 6 gpm@ 1200 psi pump (derated for safety), well suited to FELs, if you have a remote reservoir model of a GM p/s pump and can get the proper high pressure fitting.

Well done, Keith!

#6 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted January 08, 2012 - 06:59 AM

Keith, If the pump is stalling the Kubota diesel doesn't that indicate that there is no pressure relief happening. At 6gpm it would take a lot of pressure to stall an engine that large unless the engine speed is low. At 1500lbs it looks like a bit over 5hp would be required to drive the pump at 6gpm

#7 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted January 08, 2012 - 09:56 AM

Won't stall it at throttle, only idle, also , these pumps are way safe up to 2000 psi , and will not blow up regardless , what fails is the input shaft, so the pulley might fall off. They can't really explode like gear pumps and piston pumps can. So this makes them a great alternative.
Now I did not hurt the pumps saftey features, so it still has relief, just increased the volume control feature, as this is what had the issues.
The pump I have is tiny, maybe 4 gpm max. But a gm truck pump will easily do 12 gpm as they have a huge pump vain cavity, that is if you could get all that out of the small charge cavity. I have done this, but it took a lot of special machining.

#8 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted January 08, 2012 - 02:14 PM

That makes more sense that it is only at low rpm's. Adding 5hp to the load at low rpms when you are already running the hydro would stall it. I know that the 6gpm 2400psi pump on my 2320 will load the engine at low rpms. The hydro will kill it at low rpms if you use the turning breaks while you have good traction. The salesman demonstrated this in the dealer parking lot while trying to show me how tight a circle it could turn.

#9 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted January 08, 2012 - 07:39 PM

My skidder lol Posted Image
I took this shot half way through, should have gotten a cid of me pulling out the large oak, that little rig really pulls man! I'm totally pushing him WAY beyond what it was intended for.....
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#10 ducky ONLINE  

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Posted January 08, 2012 - 07:48 PM

skyrydr2
That is one nice "Ford" skidder.
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#11 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted January 14, 2012 - 06:39 AM

Well, I wad bored last night, and always wanted to see if it would work, and from day 1 I have had this heat issue, so I decided to plumb the steering to the transmissions charge pump, it works almost perfectly , notice the almost.... The steering valve can work with as low as .79 gpm and as high as 5.8 gpm, well at 4 gpm it got smoking hot, and I didn't like this, so I now have it on a 1.5 gpm diet , only issue is the steering cylinder is 1.625 id and a bit much at that low volume. It is at max volume and you can feel the pump trying to catch up at max speed turning it full left to right, not really an issue, and I plan to remedy this with a smaller steering cylinder .
I didn't think it wad going to work due to the cylinder volume, but it does, so we will be running it like this for a bit to see what happens in the heat side of things.
I am not sure why this generated so much heat, plenty of oil, and all the hoses and tubing was plenty large for this app. And I'm almost positive it was all caused by the steering valve ? Some run time will confirm this.

#12 skyrydr2 ONLINE  

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Posted January 17, 2012 - 06:28 PM

got some run time on the tractor tonight cleaning up the mess left from the the days weather . Yuck ! anyways the steering turns out works AWSOME! BUT the Aux. circuit still got very warm . I traced it back to the pump. My suspitions of the case fitting are getting more clear, I am going to mess witih it a bit more this week and see if I cant get this bottle neck cured. The pump is making the heat because the volume is at full stream with hardly any resistance, so it wants to push oil out instead of internally circulating it with the flow control. So opening uo the holes in the output case fitting should cure this and make it happy again. If not , then a pump replacement is in the works. This time I will run it off the back of the injector pump.




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