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53 Ridemaster


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#1 jdcrawler ONLINE  

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Posted December 31, 2011 - 07:59 PM

Remember this ?? It's next on my project list.

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As a reminder .. this is what it started out as.

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Here is what it looks like right now.

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When I built this up I used a Wisconsin BKN engine that was rated at 7 horsepower.
I figured that would be a big enough engine as my 48 Ridemaster only has 4 HP and it has plenty of power.
Well, it didn't work out ..........

This cart has a hydrostatic transmission on it and it really sucks the horsepower up.
Also, changing the gearing so the cart would move a little faster didn't help any either.
Between these two items, the BKN just didn't have enough umph.
The BKN engine ended up as part of the trading I did for the Shaw tractor and I went looking for a 12 or 14 HP Kolher engine ( boy they sure don't give those away ).

Last summer I ran across this Ford tractor from a guy that lives about 5 miles from me.
The tractor has a rear power take-off, a sleeve hitch and hydraulic power lift.
He said the engine runs real good but the hydrostatic transmission is shot.
I bought the whole tractor from him for $150.

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The bad thing about these Ford tractors is that the engine oil pan is part of the frame so I figured that I would just buy a oil pan off ebay and put it on the engine.

Today I started tearing the tractor apart.

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Here's the frame with the oil pan built into it.
The front axle mount is part of the oil pan.

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The engine is a 14 HP and it looks like it may even have a new starter on it.

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Once I got the engine off the frame, I realized the other oil pan was not going to work.
Here is the bottom of the engine block.
As you can see it has a square base on the engine.

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Here is the oil pan I got off ebay and it has an totally different shape.

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Apparently they used a different engine block casting for these Ford tractors.
So ... this project starts right out with a big problem for me to solve.

#2 wilberj ONLINE  

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Posted December 31, 2011 - 08:24 PM

What a odd way to put a engine in a tractor and it dont look to fun to try to cut the pan out if you did.
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#3 Bolens 1000 ONLINE  

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Posted December 31, 2011 - 08:40 PM

What a odd way to put a engine in a tractor and it dont look to fun to try to cut the pan out if you did.


:ditto:

Looking forward to this project Ray :D
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#4 wilberj ONLINE  

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Posted December 31, 2011 - 08:50 PM

Ray I just got done talking and showing this to my dad he said we may have one for you but we will have to look. I'll start looking and let you know.

He also said you did great work on that shaw tractor.
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#5 Michiganmobileman OFFLINE  

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Posted December 31, 2011 - 08:51 PM

I think the pan you bought was not for the larger K series, see this link
Search Results : , Lawn Mower Grave Yard Equipment Used Tractor Parts Salvage
Shows two different ones and I know the bottom should be for your engine.
my 2 cents.
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#6 IamSherwood OFFLINE  

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Posted December 31, 2011 - 09:06 PM

I bet, you'd like to have a few words with the engineer, that designed that Ford.
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#7 Amigatec OFFLINE  

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Posted January 01, 2012 - 08:33 AM

I know the Kohlers used on the Cub Cadet used a different pan and bottom of the block then some others, the ones used on some of the JD'S will fit on the Cubs.
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#8 jdcrawler ONLINE  

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Posted January 01, 2012 - 10:23 AM

Naturally, I was disappointed about the difference in the shape of the oil pans on these Kohler engines.

After looking at this problem for a while I have decided that I'm glad I ended up with the style of engine that's in the Ford GT instead of the other style that would fit that oil pan I bought.

The frame work for mounting the engine on the Ridemaster is 9 inch wide.
It turns out that the engine block on the Ford engine is also 9 inch wide.
The other style oil pan is 11-1/4 inch wide so that style of engine would have hung out over the frame about an inch on each side.
I still have to solve the problem of the oil pan but at least it will fit the tractor nicely once it is solved.

I was looking at the oil pan in the Ford frame this morning to see about cutting it out but I'm not sure it will work.
I need a pan that is flat on the bottom so it can bolt onto Ridemaster mounting brackets.
The pan in the ford has an area behind the front axle that sets lower and has the drain plug it the bottom.

I suppose I could mill that area off flat and weld a piece of steel in the bottom and then put the drain on the side.
I think I'll hold off on that for right now and see if I can find a pan that will work without so much modification having to be done to it.

#9 jdcrawler ONLINE  

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Posted January 01, 2012 - 10:53 AM

....... Update .......

I just got an email from a member on another tractor forum about a oil pan that he has and he is going to mail it out on Tuesday.
We know it will fit the engine correctly but not sure about it being able to bolt right up to the Ridemaster frame.

The pan is an aluminum pan off a Cub Cadet and I still may have to make some modifications to the pan or to the Ridemaster frame.

The big advantage of it being aluminum is that I can easily weld on it.
The oil penetrates into the cast iron and makes it very hard to get a good clean weld on it.
Even if you can get it clean enough to get a good weld, it will often crack and start to leak over time.
The oil doesn't penetrate into the aluminum so it is a lot easier to be able to clean it and get a good weld.

Edited by jdcrawler, January 01, 2012 - 11:35 AM.


#10 jdcrawler ONLINE  

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Posted January 03, 2012 - 09:23 AM

The guy that offered me the oil pan sent me some photos of what an aluminum pan looks like and as soon as I saw them I knew it would not work for this project.

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To refresh your memory, this cart is set up with a hydrostatic transmission and the engine sat directly over top of the transmission with only about 3/4 inch clearance between them.
The gas tank is then set over top of the engine and it is mounted to the Ridemaster frame and not to the engine.
I really don't want to have to redo the frame to raise the gas tank so this leaves me with a limited amount of space to work with.

One of the reasons that I picked a Kohler engine is that the overall height from the bottom of the flywheel shroud to the top of the head is only about 3/4 inch taller than the Wisconsin engine was.
There is room so the flywheel shroud can set down in-between the frame rails for mounting the engine and that would put the top of the engine at the same height as the Wisconsin engine was.
The problem is that the bottom of the pan can't set below those frame rails or it will hit the transmission.

I was planning on machining about 3/4 inch off the top of the oil pan that I got off ebay to allow the flywheel shroud to set down in-between the frame rails but there isn't room to machine anything off the top of the aluminum pan.
I called Darrell and talked to him about this problem with the pan and he said that the older Cub Cadets had a short cast iron pan that was flat on the bottom.
He thought that he might have one and is going to check.
The short cast iron pan looks like this.

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Edited by jdcrawler, January 03, 2012 - 09:40 AM.


#11 Kyocum OFFLINE  

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Posted January 03, 2012 - 10:05 AM

That oil pan is off of a K241 kohler. All 10hp cubs have the flat oil pan. If that guy does not have a flat oil pan I am sure I do.
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#12 wvbuzzmaster OFFLINE  

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Posted January 03, 2012 - 06:55 PM

Good luck on that Ray, Kohler oil pans can be a pain in the arse, so I decided to forgo the Kohler on a restoration because I got a good deal on a brand new Honda clone of similar HP and size. Scary part was that the shaft on the Honda clone is identical in size and elevation as the Kohler I am replacing (had 1 inch shaft). Anyway, great luck with the Kohler you are planning to use.
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#13 jdcrawler ONLINE  

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Posted January 06, 2012 - 11:14 AM

My new oil pan arrived today so now I can go back to work on the Ridemaster cart.




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