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Electrolysis Rust Removal - My 42" Thrower Rebuild


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#31 Toolpartzman OFFLINE  

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Posted January 19, 2012 - 01:21 PM

OK here's the tank set up for final de-rusting. The cathode is connected on the tank underside, to the pet ****. The + anode is connected to a double-wrap of wire, threaded thru a piece old fuel line and into the tank. A small piece of metal is attached to the submerged wire. The clamp at the filler neck is just to keep it rigid. I've dialed down the charger to as low as I can so as not to "push" it too hard-1-2 amps. (I filled with a hot water mix of electrolyte and I can go to about 11 amps, but I think that's too much.)

Also, I did' nt want to obstruct the small opening so that vapor could freely escape.

(The other pic is the anchor and flat bar I used earlier. The zinc is visable where I cleaned it best with wire wheel.)-LeeP1190086.jpg

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#32 Toolpartzman OFFLINE  

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Posted January 19, 2012 - 02:40 PM

Well, in this short time ,its done. Its quite clean, but there are some negative issues.
1) The 36vdc even at 2 amps is too much. While I'm sanding fenders it climbed to over 10amps and the tank was too hot to touch-not good
2) Even though it was cleaner than I expected--up to the water line-I can see rust near the top -must've missed it before-except for a sprinkling of black
spots, the rest is shiny-metal clean, and the water was nasty.
3) So, I guess the next consideration is to repeat, with a completely level full mix. Question is will the gas escape without a problem ?

---Opps got it. I'll flip it 90 and open the petxxx(no the shut-off valve)

#33 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted January 20, 2012 - 12:03 PM

Thanks for updating us. I have been wondering about ways to improve the process. When I get time I'll do some research to see if there is anything safe we can do to improve the performance.

#34 brokenfeather OFFLINE  

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Posted January 20, 2012 - 12:14 PM

Welcome on board guys. I too use the process. Beats everthing else so far.

#35 GTTinkerer OFFLINE  

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Posted January 20, 2012 - 12:57 PM

I am trying to get my head around using a battery in line with the charger. Won't the battery put out many more amps than the charger? I am using a charger that supposedly puts out 10 amps on low and 40 on high and have been using the high setting most of the time. The only visible difference during the process between low and high is a thicker foam layer and quicker removal on high.

The wife is still trying to figure out why the electric bill went up about $25 a month last summer.

Thanks,
Bill

#36 KennyP OFFLINE  

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Posted January 20, 2012 - 01:06 PM

Bill, the main reason I used the battery is because my charger would shut itself off if I didn't. I just hook it all together and set it at 2 amps. Seems to work pretty well, had a bit of foam. You could see the little bubbles rising from the parts and they came out really clean. I'm using a 950 cranking amps car battery for this.

#37 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted January 20, 2012 - 05:21 PM

Bill the battery is across the charger ... right Kenny? You could actually just use the battery and it would work just fine as long as the battery voltage didn't fall off. Just be careful you don't short out the leads. It could be dangerous with a healthy battery. You might want to consider adding a fuse. The current is limited by the load and is not that much. In my system I had a power supply instead of a charger and I was running 16 volts on my 50gal plastic drum. The current could be as high as 9 amps with a large piece in the tank and everything clean. If you increase the voltage the current goes up. On small pieces I've used 20 volts. I found that keeping the rust cleaned off the rods or whatever you are using in the tank helps to speed up the reaction. Bill, if you measure your chargers voltage output it is probably a lot higher than 12v without a battery to load it down.

#38 KennyP OFFLINE  

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Posted January 20, 2012 - 05:48 PM

"Bill the battery is across the charger ... right Kenny?"
Not sure what you mean with this. I just hook the charger to the battery, then use jumper cables from the battery posts to the tank connections.

#39 Toolpartzman OFFLINE  

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Posted January 20, 2012 - 06:56 PM

Thanks for updating us. I have been wondering about ways to improve the process. When I get time I'll do some research to see if there is anything safe we can do to improve the performance.

---I agree. I usually switch chargers depending on the piece-std 12vdc/and the 36vdc golf cart charger. When I cooked my Massy frame, I could run the 36 at 19 amps without any noticeable overheating toward the finish, it had dropped down to 2 or 4 amps.
Being lazy with the tank I used the 36 and the tank was cleaned in less than an hour but way HOT***. I should not have done that, but the tank survived. (and the charger) From what I've read "over potential" is an issue of heat. I assume this refers to greater available power than the circuit can actually use, thus some power is going to heat. I've also noticed-with partcularly the underside of the frame, surfaces which were hidden from "line-of-site" were ALSO cleaned. Don't know why, but maybe those ions were flyin' and bending?

*** 36 VDC at 2 amps!
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#40 KennyP OFFLINE  

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Posted January 20, 2012 - 07:24 PM

Just before I emptied the tank, I switched the + and - and turned it on for a couple hours. The piece of extra rebar I used for an anode sucked a lot of the crud off my original anodes, making them easier to clean.
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#41 joecdeere OFFLINE  

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Posted January 20, 2012 - 09:27 PM

Cleaning the anodes regularly will do you much more good than high amps or high voltage. I try to clean mine at least once a day when cooking, more if it was in really bad shape. Also since it a line of sight system, having as much anode "face" towards the part will also speed things up. I try to have at least half as much face as the part being cleaned. I know lots of people use re-bar as it is either cheap or found free, but it has only a very small surface area facing the part being cleaned. I know metal is getting harder to find, but I usually can find pieces of sheet metal at out local bodyshop for bigger jobs in my 350 gallon tank.
I use worn out lawnmower blades for my 55 gallon drum & 5 gallon bucket. I used to get the take off bushhog blades from our County but they now sell their scrap.

A small side note for those of you using the 36 volt or 48 volt golf cart chargers, they can and will KILL you if you make a good ground by accident.
I've had a slight heart issue for many years, bumped the blade in my bucket with a sweaty arm a few years ago while running 36 volts. Enjoyed chest pains and muscle spasms in my arm and chest for days after. The 12 volts will bite, but I promise you will not enjoy this! Enjoy the 12 volt low amp setting, the part will clean itself while you work on other things, or while you're at work or sleep. It will stop on its own when no more rust is present, so letting it sit will do no harm.

some shots of parts I did through the years, notice it's a good way to get most of the old paint off too!

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Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

#42 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2012 - 07:46 AM

---I agree. I usually switch chargers depending on the piece-std 12vdc/and the 36vdc golf cart charger. When I cooked my Massy frame, I could run the 36 at 19 amps without any noticeable overheating toward the finish, it had dropped down to 2 or 4 amps.
Being lazy with the tank I used the 36 and the tank was cleaned in less than an hour but way HOT***. I should not have done that, but the tank survived. (and the charger) From what I've read "over potential" is an issue of heat. I assume this refers to greater available power than the circuit can actually use, thus some power is going to heat. I've also noticed-with partcularly the underside of the frame, surfaces which were hidden from "line-of-site" were ALSO cleaned. Don't know why, but maybe those ions were flyin' and bending?

*** 36 VDC at 2 amps!


All the power is being released as heat so when you are running at 19amps and 36 volts that's something like 700w heating the water, so it would get warm even with a 50 gal tank. Getting lots of anode area is worth doing but it also makes it easier for large pieces to contact an anode and short out, this is a bad thing especially if you have an unfused battery in the circuit. I used pieces of 1/8 flat for my anodes, 4 of them, bent to hug the sides of the tank and they extend along the bottom of the tank where they are bolted together in the middle. I thought that might help by giving coverage from the bottom. The problem was that the debris and rust tends to cover the bottom and reduce the effectiveness. One thing I did was to take the wet/dry vac and suck out most of the sediment from the bottom then top up the tank with new solution. It's all a work in progress. I'm going to build a better power supply this winter with an amp meter and a switch to select different voltage outputs. Having an amp meter is a good indicator for how the process is proceeding. I find even with a 50 gal tank there are some items that are hard to fit in. There are lots of good ideas and advice in this thread.

#43 Amigatec OFFLINE  

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Posted January 21, 2012 - 10:06 AM

i was just sitting here trying to imagine what Tulsa looked like frozen solid.:confuse:


Im going try this system this spring, i have a 300 gl plastic tank not doing anything here. i might like it betterthan blasting, as it could do the work while i was at work.


Here was Haskell last winter .

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My poor little car.

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We had about 4 inches of sleet under this.

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#44 JDBrian OFFLINE  

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Posted January 22, 2012 - 07:03 AM

Now thats a winter scene. Do you guys get issued tickets if you leave your car on the side of the street when there is a snow storm. We do up here.




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