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Case 222 Hyd Drive not working right


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#61 jbadman OFFLINE  

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Posted January 07, 2012 - 10:03 AM

Hmm... If no air, and oil spec is correct weight, I'd be suspicious of the pump efficiency, meaning the oil under pressure may be recirculating inside the pump itself and not moving at rated gpm downstream to the hyd motor. To test the pump, it would require a small capacity, hyd flowmeter to see if its producing gpm's of 85% or better gpm's off rated mfr. value of c.i. displacement per rev and engine rpm. Pumps are not validated on measuring pressure alone, they require pressure and flow both to make effective hydraulics. Same's true of the motor's rotor section, the gerotor must not be slipping internally or an otherwise good pump will deliver, but the motor is inefficient. Tough call when 99.9% of us don't have a flowmeter. Parts replacement is only alternative by process of elimination. I'd quicker say start with the pump. Typical hyd wear will show up there first because the housing is aluminum and the gearset is steel. The motor has an internal and external gear rotor set both made of steel.....Possibly a friend has some known good parts you could interchange with. ( only other wild guess would be a travel valve worn so badly the spool and casting lands are bypassing. I doubt it, but it is a possibility. Seems like the spool seals would be leaking bad too)...I'll stay tuned for you, see if I can help. Hope this helps here...Jeff
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#62 Twood OFFLINE  

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Posted January 07, 2012 - 08:07 PM

Hmm... If no air, and oil spec is correct weight, I'd be suspicious of the pump efficiency, meaning the oil under pressure may be recirculating inside the pump itself and not moving at rated gpm downstream to the hyd motor. To test the pump, it would require a small capacity, hyd flowmeter to see if its producing gpm's of 85% or better gpm's off rated mfr. value of c.i. displacement per rev and engine rpm. Pumps are not validated on measuring pressure alone, they require pressure and flow both to make effective hydraulics. Same's true of the motor's rotor section, the gerotor must not be slipping internally or an otherwise good pump will deliver, but the motor is inefficient. Tough call when 99.9% of us don't have a flowmeter. Parts replacement is only alternative by process of elimination. I'd quicker say start with the pump. Typical hyd wear will show up there first because the housing is aluminum and the gearset is steel. The motor has an internal and external gear rotor set both made of steel.....Possibly a friend has some known good parts you could interchange with. ( only other wild guess would be a travel valve worn so badly the spool and casting lands are bypassing. I doubt it, but it is a possibility. Seems like the spool seals would be leaking bad too)...I'll stay tuned for you, see if I can help. Hope this helps here...Jeff

I am in the process of trying a different hydraulic motor. Should know tomorrow if that is the problem. Sounds like maybe I am starting on the wrong end.

#63 Twood OFFLINE  

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Posted January 10, 2012 - 11:09 PM

Tried the pump from a parts tractor that I bought last week. It works about the same as my original pump. Next week might have time to install the travel valve from the parts tractor. The only problem is that travel valve has the internal holding valve and the tubing is bent and needs to be replaced. I noticed when taking out the pump and changing it that there is a nylon friction bracket on the travel lever that might give me some problem. Have to check that out. Might be easier to wait and find a travel control valve just like mine.

#64 Billygoat OFFLINE  

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Posted January 11, 2012 - 07:13 AM

Have you changed the drive motor yet? Also when changing the TCV from a valve without the holding valve to one with the integral holding valve. one must relocate the valve 11/16" from the original location, rearward I think. I'll do some checking and verify this for you.
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#65 Twood OFFLINE  

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Posted January 11, 2012 - 11:44 AM

Have you changed the drive motor yet? Also when changing the TCV from a valve without the holding valve to one with the integral holding valve. one must relocate the valve 11/16" from the original location, rearward I think. I'll do some checking and verify this for you.

Yes I tried 2 different motors both worked the same. Yes I know about the different location of the valve with the integrated valve. I will just measure the holes in the parts tractor to locate them on my tractor. The spool only travels out about 7/16 of an inch does that sound right. Was going to wait till next week to work on it but think I will go change it out today the bent tubing should work good enough to at least see if it works.

#66 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 11, 2012 - 02:59 PM

Well you only have one part left to change, the motion control valve , that valve has to have an issue, and I think it is in the dump metering circuit, being a motor control valve, it differs from the standard bi directional valves as it needs to meter off exccess oil with out creating back pressure ,causing the pump to work hard at slow speeds- counter productive ... So change that puppy out! Do what you need to to incorporate that holdback valve, you will be glad you did.

#67 Twood OFFLINE  

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Posted January 13, 2012 - 05:50 PM

Finally got the integrated control valve from my 1986 parts tractor installed on my 1983 black frame Case 222. Had to drill new holes 5/8 inch back from original holes on frame to mount new valve. Found out that the neutral switch on the parts tractor was too deep to let me install my hydraulic reservoir on my tractor. The reservoir on the parts tractor wouldn't work on my tractor without remounting the alternator gauge. So I made a new bracket to mount the neutral switch off the parts tractor. Put a thin piece of belting between switch and tank to make sure it doesn't wear a hole in tank. The tractor moves good in slow speeds except when I tried going up a steep ditch on the road. I just need to push the lever up a little and it goes up. With the holding valve it goes down the ditch the same speed as up. The bottom hydraulic line from the travel control to the motor is kinked about half ways in. Could that be the reason it would not go up the ditch in slow speed without moving the lever up? Plan on replacing it when I find a good one or have one made up. Checked that's not cheap. Or does it mean maybe the pump is a little tired? I still have the pump from the parts tractor in now might put the original one back in to see if that works better. Only problem is I couldn't get the drain plug out of the new travel valve. Even took it to a hydraulic repair shop and they couldn't either. At least it is usable now. This is a picture(not very good) of the travel spool off my old defective travel control valve. Anyone see anything wrong with it? Is it even the right one? I think someone has had it apart. It looked like someone filed on it.

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Edited by Twood, January 13, 2012 - 05:55 PM.

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#68 Billygoat OFFLINE  

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Posted January 13, 2012 - 08:27 PM

:bounce::bounce:Glad you got it going!!!:bounce::bounce:
That will be a lesson well learned by all of us. Thank you for your patience with us and keeping us posted on what was going on. As far as the spool, I've never had mine apart, so I can't help there.

#69 skyrydr2 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 14, 2012 - 07:05 AM

As for needing to give it more out of the ditch, normal. Is that all that came out ? What was between the washers on the left side, and where are the file marks? If any are on the Sharp edges of the lands its junk.

#70 Twood OFFLINE  

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Posted January 14, 2012 - 10:59 AM

As for needing to give it more out of the ditch, normal. Is that all that came out ? What was between the washers on the left side, and where are the file marks? If any are on the Sharp edges of the lands its junk.

Yes that was all that came out. There was nothing between the two washers but after looking at the parts diagram that is normal. Yes they are on the sharp edges of the land. Don't understand why anyone would file on them. The linkage was all goofed up when I bought the tractor. The previous owner obviously didn't now what he was doing and must have filed on it for some reason. Just wish I would have started with the control valve first. That probably explains the reason I couldn't get a 300# psi reading on the retard test. If it is normal to give it more to go up the ditch I guess the Case is closed.

#71 cp7 OFFLINE  

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Posted January 14, 2012 - 06:31 PM

Glad she worked out for you.
Sorry we couldn't get you on that valve sooner.

#72 Twood OFFLINE  

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Posted January 15, 2012 - 11:59 AM

Just want to thank everyone on the forum for helping me get my tractor going. Especially Billygoat for never giving up trying to help me. Wish the travel control valve would have been my first try but who would have known. Fixing mechanical things has never been my strong point. The manuals were especially helpful to understand how the system worked. Also I did try Rotella 15w-40 before changing out the pump. Just in case that was a possibility that was the problem.If the travel control valve hadn't worked I would have gone crazy. This thing was getting to be a mystery that I couldn't solve. Looking at all the views on this thread it must have been a mystery for a few other people too. Thanks again Twood

Edited by Twood, January 15, 2012 - 12:27 PM.

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#73 jbadman OFFLINE  

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Posted January 16, 2012 - 12:06 PM

Wow, who would have thought the valve....But given the tinkerability of these little tractors anything goes... The valve spool lands if filed make it defective. As the spools cross the internal valve casting lands, it sets up certain timing of events of pressuration and release of oil. Filing the lands advances the event timing so that presurized oil may just redirect back to tank, instead of working against the hyd motor geroter. Still amazed at what you found. Thanks for sharing.




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