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Case 222 Hyd Drive not working right


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#16 Twood OFFLINE  

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Posted December 18, 2011 - 12:04 AM

First of all Thank You for returning to the forum to update us on your progress. What about the hydraulic fluid level in the reservoir? Have you check that fluid level lately? Do you have an Operator's Manual (OM)? My Case 222 is a little older than yours (1973), but it shouldn't be too far off. My OM states: "Maintain oil level between two and three inches from the top of the filler opening." The level could be low enough that you need to open the control valve further in order to get the tractor to move forward. How about the hydraulic oil itself? What oil are you using in your hydraulic system? You need to be using SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil in winter(below 32 degrees F.) and SAE 20W-40 Motor Oil in summer. "Use only oil which is rated at API engine service classification SE or CC."

Kenneth

I changed the oil in the hydraulic system before checking the linkage. My manual says 5" to 6" below filler. It took about 7 quarts of oil. I live in Minnesota. So I put Quaker State SAE 5w-20 motor oil. It says API service SN. It doesn't say SE or CC. If I remember right it used to say that on the bottle. I assume this just the new way of labeling oil. Also before trying it out it was in my shop kept at 55 degrees. And I ran it for a while at full throttle with the transaxle in the neutral position. From what I can see it is maybe the pump not putting out enough pressure or flow. Or the relief spring in the hydraulic control valve not adjusted right or broken. Or the hydraulic control valve wore out. Or the hydraulic motor wore out. Talked to a hydraulic technician and he said without doing some testing it is anybodys guess which one is bad.

#17 KBear OFFLINE  

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Posted December 19, 2011 - 12:50 PM

Sounds as though you should download and take a look at the Case/Ingersoll Hydraulic System Test Procedures (found here on GTtalk) to find out if there's something in there that may point you in the right direction. Also sounds as though you'll need to purchase a oil filled Hydraulic Pressure Gauge, fittings and a hose to pressure test your pump motor. I've not done this on my tractor.

Maybe something you should look into. Are all your hoses in good shape? Do they have a clamp at the end that may have broken allowing air into the system or a hose that could have a crack in it? Next time you're running the tractor and driving it forward look inside the reservoir to see if the oil is foaming or has a lot of bubbles in the tank. If so it's likely you have an air leak. Someplace in the vacuum side as the pump is pulling oil and air (from a cracked hose) from the reservoir and forcing it into and through the system then back into the reservoir. I don't think it would be the pump coupling (lovejoy connection) or the pump mounting support too loose mounted to the engine. If it had sheared off any mounting pins of the coupler you wouldn't be able to move at all so I don't think it's the pump coupling.

I would read the Hydraulic System Test Procedures and see if there's a way to narrow down the possibilities.

Kenneth
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#18 Twood OFFLINE  

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Posted December 19, 2011 - 06:10 PM

Sounds as though you should download and take a look at the Case/Ingersoll Hydraulic System Test Procedures (found here on GTtalk) to find out if there's something in there that may point you in the right direction. Also sounds as though you'll need to purchase a oil filled Hydraulic Pressure Gauge, fittings and a hose to pressure test your pump motor. I've not done this on my tractor.

Maybe something you should look into. Are all your hoses in good shape? Do they have a clamp at the end that may have broken allowing air into the system or a hose that could have a crack in it? Next time you're running the tractor and driving it forward look inside the reservoir to see if the oil is foaming or has a lot of bubbles in the tank. If so it's likely you have an air leak. Someplace in the vacuum side as the pump is pulling oil and air (from a cracked hose) from the reservoir and forcing it into and through the system then back into the reservoir. I don't think it would be the pump coupling (lovejoy connection) or the pump mounting support too loose mounted to the engine. If it had sheared off any mounting pins of the coupler you wouldn't be able to move at all so I don't think it's the pump coupling.

I would read the Hydraulic System Test Procedures and see if there's a way to narrow down the possibilities.

Kenneth

I have already downloaded Case/Ingersol Hydraulic System Test Procedures manual. It is a little more than what I am capable of doing myself. It doesn't seem to be getting air in the system I checked that. I got a hydraulic motor off Craigslist and tried that. It gained one more speed I would guess. The person I bought it from bought it from someone else. That tractor had the engine not running so he assumed the hydraulic motor was good. Who knows? Might go talk to the hydraulic person again tomorrow. It doesn't pay for me to go buy a bunch of testing equipment especially if I don't know what I am doing. Or maybe I will trial and error a used pump. I am beginning to think everything is just a little bit wore out like me.

#19 Billygoat OFFLINE  

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Posted December 19, 2011 - 07:55 PM

A decent gauge and hose with swivel fitting isn't very much at all. I got mine from Grainger and if I remember correctly, it was less than $30. Those will allow you to at least check the relief settings on the TCV.
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#20 Twood OFFLINE  

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Posted December 19, 2011 - 10:40 PM

A decent gauge and hose with swivel fitting isn't very much at all. I got mine from Grainger and if I remember correctly, it was less than $30. Those will allow you to at least check the relief settings on the TCV.

What kind of gauge was that? Did everything come in a kit? At 2000# pressure I don't want to have the wrong set up.

#21 mikebramel OFFLINE  

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Posted December 19, 2011 - 10:45 PM

You just need a hydraulic hose rated for 2500 psi working pressure with 1/4" ends and a gauge that goes up to about 4000psi. Northern or Fleet Farm has them, prolly TSC but I dont have one around here to let you know
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#22 Twood OFFLINE  

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 10:34 AM

You just need a hydraulic hose rated for 2500 psi working pressure with 1/4" ends and a gauge that goes up to about 4000psi. Northern or Fleet Farm has them, prolly TSC but I dont have one around here to let you know

Are you talking about testing the control valve release pressure off or on the tractor. Looking at the test procedure manual looks like you are supposed to test it off the tractor and you would also need a special grease gun or pump and also some special case fittings with O rings to hook up to the inlet port. And also a bunch of fittings to cap the working ports. Is there a simpler method to do this?

#23 mikebramel OFFLINE  

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 10:36 AM

Thats alot of work.

Im talking about testing with it on the machine. there is just a 1/4" hex plug on the bottom
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#24 Twood OFFLINE  

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 11:01 AM

Thats alot of work.

Im talking about testing with it on the machine. there is just a 1/4" hex plug on the bottom

Yes that sounds a lot simpler. I assume you are talking about the drain plug. So I take the plug out and drain the oil and use a grease gun to build up the pressure. It should release a 2000# right.

#25 Billygoat OFFLINE  

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 11:54 AM

Nope- not the way to check it. First, the gauge I have from grainger is 2C673, liquid filled, 5000 psi. the hose is 2F717. You will need adapter 2F373 to make things easier and a high pressure coupling to attach the gauge to the hose, 2F481. Drive the tractor around to get the oil warm (manual says 120deg. min.). Once oil is warm, set parking brake tight, chain tractor to tree or other immovable object, install fitting where drain plug is, install hose into fitting, start tractor, run at 3000 rpm or so, put hi/low selector in high, carefully move travel control lever to forward direction, watch gauge and see what the highest pressure reading is. Should be around 2000 psi +/- 50psi. Adjust as shown in manual. Put back in neutral, raise lift until relief squeals, gauge should read around 525 psi. MAKE SURE PARKING BRAKE WILL HOLD TRACTOR STILL BEFORE DOING THIS PROCEDURE!
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#26 mikebramel OFFLINE  

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 01:52 PM

Put the gauge on right away, you will be able to see the internal blowby in the pump (pressure difference) as it gets warm.

Valley Instrument 2 1/2in. Stainless Steel Glycerin Gauge — 0-5000 PSI | Filled Gauges | Northern Tool + Equipment

Apache Hydraulic Hose — 1/4in. x 36in.L, 1-Wire, 2750 PSI | Hydraulic Hose | Northern Tool + Equipment

and a double female to join them

#27 Twood OFFLINE  

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 10:07 PM

Put the gauge on right away, you will be able to see the internal blowby in the pump (pressure difference) as it gets warm.

Valley Instrument 2 1/2in. Stainless Steel Glycerin Gauge — 0-5000 PSI | Filled Gauges | Northern Tool + Equipment

Apache Hydraulic Hose — 1/4in. x 36in.L, 1-Wire, 2750 PSI | Hydraulic Hose | Northern Tool + Equipment

and a double female to join them

Thanks I will have to give that a try. It doesn't sound to hard to do or expensive.

#28 Twood OFFLINE  

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 10:13 PM

Nope- not the way to check it. First, the gauge I have from grainger is 2C673, liquid filled, 5000 psi. the hose is 2F717. You will need adapter 2F373 to make things easier and a high pressure coupling to attach the gauge to the hose, 2F481. Drive the tractor around to get the oil warm (manual says 120deg. min.). Once oil is warm, set parking brake tight, chain tractor to tree or other immovable object, install fitting where drain plug is, install hose into fitting, start tractor, run at 3000 rpm or so, put hi/low selector in high, carefully move travel control lever to forward direction, watch gauge and see what the highest pressure reading is. Should be around 2000 psi +/- 50psi. Adjust as shown in manual. Put back in neutral, raise lift until relief squeals, gauge should read around 525 psi. MAKE SURE PARKING BRAKE WILL HOLD TRACTOR STILL BEFORE DOING THIS PROCEDURE!

Would it be safe to assume 3000 rpms. is full throttle? You don't want to move the travel level forward very far do you?

#29 Billygoat OFFLINE  

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Posted December 21, 2011 - 05:37 AM

At full throttle, the engine should be running 3600 rpm. Most likely you will have to move the travel lever to almost full forward, thus the need to make sure parking brake holds and your chained to an immovable object just in case. You want to move the travel lever far enough to lift the relief on the valve to observe highest pressure.

#30 Twood OFFLINE  

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Posted December 23, 2011 - 11:01 AM

At full throttle, the engine should be running 3600 rpm. Most likely you will have to move the travel lever to almost full forward, thus the need to make sure parking brake holds and your chained to an immovable object just in case. You want to move the travel lever far enough to lift the relief on the valve to observe highest pressure.

I put the gauge on and at almost full throttle it would go up to almost 2000#. The lift pressure was a little high at about 700#. This tells me the relief valve is working properly on the travel spool side. What I still don't know is if the flow rate is high enough. Pressure must not have a lot to do with it unless you are really working it. Because just driving around the yard the gauge barely moves. Would I be safe to assume the pump is wore out and not giving me enough flow?




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